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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#421

Post by stjohnswarts »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #135
GuiA wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a laptop with a physical switch for WiFi/Bluetooth in 2006 or so (with a matching orange/blue light that would turn up when you toggled it). The problem was that this was actually all done by a software driver - when I booted into Linux with the laptop I was surprised to find that the bluetooth/wifi modules were on regardless of the switch's position. At the end of the day, unless you have a really nice microsc…

I have a Lenovo Thinkpad T480. Its webcam switch is a slider that covers the webcam lens. You don't need a fancy microscope, or a solid understanding of EE, or tens of thousands of hours. You need the ability to see the slider cover the lens. Takes all of half a second and at least 1 eye.

Yeah but it's just as easy to put some black tape over most laptop cameras. Evidently apple decided to not consider that option

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#422

Post by gmantg »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #386
alunchbox wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

There are also doctors who are anti-vaccine, financial planners who don't max out 401ks, sysadmins with unpatched home systems, etc. Just because someone could possibly know that the thing they're doing is illogical doesn't mean they act on that knowledge. > There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up This is an incredibly weakly phrased argument; there's a reason people are flat-earthers as…

Unlike a led light, a piece of tape prevents unauthorized webcam access.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#424

Post by verytrivial »

miles wrote: post #23

> "Designed to protect your privacy, Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. ... Published Date: July 02, 2020" Perhaps Apple missed these? 2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... 2016: Former NSA emp…

And The Hindenberg was "designed" to ferry passengers across the sky in luxury. They've chosen their words very carefully.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#425

Post by cheeze »

gtm1260 wrote: post #20

I was very skeptical of the camera covers, but then through conversations with some of my co-workers, I realized that they weren't being used because people were worried about spies secretly turning on the camera. It was 90% of the time just peace of mind that their camera was actually off, instead of having to find the sometimes hard to see options in video chat programs etc.

For me it's that I'm sitting here shirtless while I'm working, and I'm kinda fat

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#426

Post by solarkraft »

JadeNB wrote: post #399
CydeWeys wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A physical electrical on/off switch for the microphone (that actually interrupts the wires going to the mic).

Doesn't that require the same kind of trust in the correctness of the wiring that is at issue in some other comments? I can see that a camera cover works, but I think I couldn't see that a physical switch was actually interrupting the wiring without doing a teardown.

You want your equipment to be verifiably secure?

Boy, wait until you find about what's possible manipulating PCB or processor designs (the Bloomberg fiction piece "The big Hack" illustrates what would be possible with just PCB manipulation). Or firmware or anything else proprietary running with elevated rights (normal ones are already enough to cause a lot of damage on most systems).

All you can do is reduce attack surface.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#427

Post by sjwright »

prerok wrote: post #413
axoltl wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! I was the security architect for this feature on recent Macs. The LED is wired to the camera PMIC and is powered by the voltage rail that powers the camera. The PMIC will always remain on if the system has power. Macs newer than 4 or so years also have a feature that forces the LED to stay lit for at least 3 seconds after it has been turned on to prevent the single-frame-grab attack.

I am wondering: how does Mac know whether you are in a light room or a dark room to adjust its screen's brightness without activating the camera?

There’s a separate ambient light sensor.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#428

Post by elihu »

gtm1260 wrote: post #20

I was very skeptical of the camera covers, but then through conversations with some of my co-workers, I realized that they weren't being used because people were worried about spies secretly turning on the camera. It was 90% of the time just peace of mind that their camera was actually off, instead of having to find the sometimes hard to see options in video chat programs etc.

On my work laptop, my employer could conceivably turn the camera on to monitor me in some way. I don't think they would, but still I put tape over the camera because I don't want them to be able to do that.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#430

Post by nippoo »

prerok wrote: post #413
axoltl wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! I was the security architect for this feature on recent Macs. The LED is wired to the camera PMIC and is powered by the voltage rail that powers the camera. The PMIC will always remain on if the system has power. Macs newer than 4 or so years also have a feature that forces the LED to stay lit for at least 3 seconds after it has been turned on to prevent the single-frame-grab attack.

I am wondering: how does Mac know whether you are in a light room or a dark room to adjust its screen's brightness without activating the camera?

That's a separate sensor - see https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/347895/where-is-th...
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