Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates • Hacker News Board

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#421

Post by uhtred » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 3:01 PM UTC

state_less wrote: post #291

duelingjello wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeap. Food and valuables have to be toddler-proofed around crows. They can also steal your wallet or your keys if you leave them unsecured. And, damn, they're as good as human thieves at reading situations for opportunism.

I was in Nepal having breakfast. Some crows are sitting there watching me eat. I look down to read my book, and in not more than a few seconds, I hear the clinking of dishes. I look up and the crows are flying off with my toast and jam. It was right in front of me, but they were quick enough to get in and out before I could react. I realized that they are probably aware of my lack of attention to my food and that the…

> their in-built modeling of other agents

Why do programmers talk about living beings in software terminology, it's so clinical and cold. Other species are sentient beings, but for many it helps combat cognitive bias by not thinking of them as such.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#422

Post by zentiggr » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 3:01 PM UTC

garren wrote: post #272

sethammons wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One theory I heard on cats leaving dead things for you is that they think of you as a non-effective cat that needs help killin things, similar to a mom cat teaching kittens to hunt.

I’ve read this, too. Cats leave you gifts not because they’re being particularly friendly, but because they regard you as an incompetent hunter. You see the behavior in indoor-only cats as well though, say, leaving toys on your pillow, etc. In that case, I wonder if they’re reciprocating? You feed me, I feed you (kind of).

We've had more than one cat that absolutely loved playing fetch. When my wife figured out how to toss a bouncy toy from the bedroom and two rebounds to get it down the stairs to the first floor landing, it was game on for Gabriel...

And I've had a fine afternoon tossing a rubber ball that would bounce all around the living and dining room in billiard-style angles, and have an hour or more of lazy returns and rethrows.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#423

Post by zentiggr » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 3:13 PM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #107

coldtea wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually there's no need for this comment, the mock-indignation on behalf of others. A funny aside is always welcome in an otherwise substantial comment, and no, this is not considered racism or offending by 99% of Earth's population, including most Irish.

Saying something displaying a certain behavior makes them seem like a certain race is racism, even if you don't find it offensive.

I think you'll find that your opinion is rather hard line on this... compared to the vast majority of actual racist type behavior, and actual putdowns based on , this is mildly amusing and speaks to a general behavior.

You're of course entirely welcome to keep your speech pure, but know that there's a full grayscale here and we all have different tolerances.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#424

Post by zentiggr » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 3:15 PM UTC

turbo_fart_box wrote: post #92

onetimemanytime wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a passing comment, the sun will still rise tomorrow... Meanwhile: Why Irish grudges are passed on - a long tradition of never forgetting https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/cahirodoherty/why-irish...

Irish central is for America's. Pretty much 100% made up plastic paddy crap. I am Irish and live in Ireland.

Hope you don't mind if this part-Scot American envies you that just a little.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#425

Post by sprflyprgrmrguy » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 3:19 PM UTC

How do I go about gaining the trust of the local murder of crows? We've a group of them that hang around, and they do an great job of scaring off the 3-4 red tail hawks in the neighborhood too... we've got chickens, and I'd love to trade some aerial protection for food.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#426

Post by guru4consulting » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 3:50 PM UTC

In Southern parts of India (at least in Tamilnadu state), there are lots of rituals involving crows. It's very common to see people calling crows (giving the cawing sound) and feeding them food on Saturdays. It is also believed that when people die, their soul supposedly comes back to visit the family as a crow, hence they feed the crows especially on the death anniversaries of family members. When visitors come to your home, the crows often inform the residents well ahead by cawing in-front of the home. I used to make fun of my Mom for believing in all such random events, saying crows are just stupid birds habituated to getting fed by humans and don't remember anything. Now that I see that crows can be smarter, I could have been wrong.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#427

Post by blankaccount » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 3:54 PM UTC

uhtred wrote: post #421

state_less wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Nepal having breakfast. Some crows are sitting there watching me eat. I look down to read my book, and in not more than a few seconds, I hear the clinking of dishes. I look up and the crows are flying off with my toast and jam. It was right in front of me, but they were quick enough to get in and out before I could react. I realized that they are probably aware of my lack of attention to my food and that the…

> their in-built modeling of other agents Why do programmers talk about living beings in software terminology, it's so clinical and cold. Other species are sentient beings, but for many it helps combat cognitive bias by not thinking of them as such.

if it soothes you at all, we also talk about humans in the same cold clinical language. Hell, I talk about myself that way...

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#428

Post by newshorts » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

I kidnapped a baby crow thinking it was injured. My neighbor helped me capture it as the crow parents were honking at us from the trees.

At the animal clinic, i learned it couldn’t fly because it was a baby, not due to an injury, so i offered to reunite it with its parents.

The minute i released the baby, the parents flew over and started barking. It seemed almost like they were trying to guide the baby away from me.

For the rest of the summer the crows would yell at my neighbor and I if they saw us.

That fall, I was walking my newborn outside and was dive bombed by one of the crows. I got the sense it was payback for kidnapping the baby crow.

They hold grudges.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#429

Post by barberousse » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #374

stjohnswarts wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

humans are able to take concepts and and predict with 100% accuracy what will happen next without trial and error. We also have arithmetic which also is not trial and error.

> We also have arithmetic which also is not trial and error. How did you learn arithmetic?

We're getting into Hume/Kant territory

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#430

Post by blackearl » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

dbingham wrote: post #279

dta3456 wrote: post #139

When I was a child, I'd spend a lot of time at my grandfathers farm, and one summer he took in an injured crow that hurt its wing. For some strange reason, he named all of his animals Jack, cats, dogs and now crows. So we'd go out in the morning and my grandfather would call out "Jack" and the Dog would come running down the yard, and then next thing you'd see the crow hopping down the yard after the dog. It would ar…

Crows also have vocal chords capable of producing human language, and - similar to parrots - they can learn human phrases in the right conditions. My partner used to volunteer at the local Wildcare and they had an injured crow resident that they couldn't release named Da Vinci. Da Vinci would always greet visitors with "Hello! How are you? How are you?"

Crows and Ravens can also sound very human. There are some videos on youtube that are pretty unnerving. Makes for good background to Poe's famous story.