Why Child Care Is So Expensive • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#421

Post by HBKXNCUO » Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 2:15 AM UTC

jonstewart wrote: post #419

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While it's not impossible to recover from that, it's extremely difficult On the other hand, it's impossible for your children to get back the time they could have spent in their most formative and vulnerable years around people that love them, rather than minimum wage daycare workers.

Both my kids have been in nanny shares. That’s a bit higher end than minimum wage daycare, but, trust me, they’ve been better taken care of and more loved than if I’d had to take care of them. Comparative advantage works another way with daycare: you can benefit from hiring a professional.

>they’ve been better taken care of and more loved than if I’d had to take care of them.

If you can afford to pay other people to give more love to your children than you can, then by all means, hand them off.

>Comparative advantage works another way with daycare: you can benefit from hiring a professional.

Do you prefer to get your love from professionals? I hope not for your wife's sake.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#422

Post by tehjoker » Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 2:22 AM UTC

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #2

Women's introduction to the workforce was the right thing to happen but it fundamentally hurt labor and the "middle class". You can't double the supply without changing anything in the system and inflationary effects of dual income are ridiculous.

[flagged]

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#423

Post by cmdshiftf4 » Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 2:25 AM UTC

aceofspades19 wrote: post #390

bonoboTP wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone grew up in an as money-centered society as the US. A middle class Swedish lifestyle is plentiful and way beyond the reach of most people in most countries, including most Europeans. Whether you believe it or not, making 1.5x as much (or twice) in America is not that attractive for many people, especially because of how social issues are handled there. Not to mention family, friends etc. People aren't som…

That may be true, my perspective as a Canadian which is a fairly socialistic country compared to the US is a bit different. We have a massive problem with the brain drain as a lot of people who are college educated go to the US to earn higher salaries, especially in but not limited to tech. But its possible that the proximity to the US is a factor as you can still easily visit your friends and family in Canada while…

>We have a massive problem with the brain drain as a lot of people who are college educated go to the US to earn higher salaries, especially in but not limited to tech.

Anecdotally a lot of those same people are 1st generation immigrants, 2nd generation children of recent immigrants or are merely here for school from places such as China in the first place, and as such don't feel much of a tie to Canada or to being Canadian.

Not to mention that Canada, at least in the major English-speaking cities, does not have much of a residual sense of community left.

Hence the situation is very different to a largely homogeneous society with an inherent sense of shared identity such as Sweden.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#424

Post by randyrand » Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 2:30 AM UTC

vturner wrote: post #21

This may be somewhat off-topic, but I'm often surprised that leftist policies like the article advocates are often proposed at a national level? Why is this? Why not propose a state-sponsored child-care system in a leftist state - California, Washington, Massachusetts, etc. I'm not trying to start a war here, simply genuinely interested why people on the left push national social programs versus propose them in very…

There’s a very dramatic “I’m right and your wrong” narcissism on the left, that feels stronger than the narcisismo on the right or center - led by stronger emotions for their beliefs than the others. I’m not entirely sure why but it almost seems tautologically explained by the left more strongly following their emotions.

Left people feel emotionally obligated to spread their “correct” opinions that “help people” as far as possible. Nationally > state.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#425

Post by DrAwdeOccarim » Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 2:31 AM UTC

ben7799 wrote: post #261

yanslookup wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For another data point, my wife and I live in Cambridge, MA we just hired a nanny for our 6 month old son at a rate of 23/hr for 30 hours per week (~35k/yr)... This was competitive with nearby day care center rates.

Yes I was referring to Kendall Sq. day cares when thinking of $36-40k/yr. I worked there when my child was born.

We had our kid in the infant class at a chain daycare in Central, $3400/mo. His older sibling was $2900/mo. And the care wasn't even that great...We moved them to a daycare closer to our house, a little further out. The costs went down 25% and the quality went up dramatically. It's really amazing how hit or miss the quality of the day care options are in the area, and how obscenely expensive it all is. But it's an easy equation for them--you simply look at the after-tax income of a biopharm mid-career professional and you make it cost that. The families are willing to pay that amount of money for 3-4 years because leaving a parent out of the workforce causes a loss of career trajectory and a subsequent loss of future income. Basically you sacrifice a few years of current earning to not lose out on the time in role.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#426

Post by cmdshiftf4 » Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 2:31 AM UTC

ihumanable wrote: post #370

aceofspades19 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is taxing high earners more a good idea? It just gives people an incentive to either not make that much money or leave the country to make more money.

"Taxes are high so I won't try to make more money" - No one ever.

>"Taxes are high so I won't try to make more money" - No one ever.

No, but the Swiss banking system, Panama Papers, Canadian shadow company situation et al. can attest to the fact that when income / wealth rises to a certain level and those who've earned / attained it feel the level of tax being levied at them is of an unfair level, a vast amount of money that could be taxed will be off-shored.

Everyone, particularly those in areas with a low sense of shared identity and the mutual obligations that comes with it, will try to minimize their tax bill some way or another and once one attains a certain level they will unlock mechanisms to avoid tax at a level that will be detrimental to the rest of the players in their given system.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#427

Post by HBKXNCUO » Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 2:33 AM UTC

crashedsnow wrote: post #416

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While it's not impossible to recover from that, it's extremely difficult On the other hand, it's impossible for your children to get back the time they could have spent in their most formative and vulnerable years around people that love them, rather than minimum wage daycare workers.

It's extremely difficult to correlate this to long-term happiness or well-being. If parents can accelerate their time to retirement they get to spend more time with children as teenagers or young adults. Is that better or worse? More or less memorable? I don't remember much before I was 5-ish. Do we really know that having stay-at-home parents during that time alters a lot? Does having the extra money for "better" co…

>It's extremely difficult to correlate this to long-term happiness or well-being.

Sure, as with any social science there are huge numbers of complicating factors, which makes it difficult to really study anything conclusively. No double blind studies, obviously.

>If parents can accelerate their time to retirement they get to spend more time with children as teenagers or young adults. Is that better or worse?

Studies would be great, but probably far worse. Teenagers and young adults are developing independence from their parents and would probably feel overly constricted.

>Do we really know that having stay-at-home parents during that time alters a lot?

No, we can't know it without running trials.

>Does having the extra money for "better" college outweigh time in "formative" years?

Maybe in some cases. The overwhelming majority of people aren't going to go to any college "better" than a state university and wouldn't benefit from it.

>"minimum wage daycare workers"

Why put that in quotes?

>who in my experience are actually often highly qualified

Qualified for what? To show children the love and care that their parents would show them? I don't think so, because I don't think you can fake that, and I don't think their love for the children can be genuine because any loving parent would be emotionally destroyed if they couldn't see their child any more because the child graduated from daycare and moved on to kindergarden.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#428

Post by yters » Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 2:36 AM UTC

spookthesunset wrote: post #335

yters wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so. Child care costs is artificial. In Texas child care was quite cheap. In Maryland costs are extraordinary. People know the demand is there, because there are a whole bunch of type A career minded people who want to climb the corporate ladder rather than look after their little food grubbers. Plus, legislation that forces corporations and government to pay for childcare just makes it all even more expensive, as…

I think you are mixing a bunch of unrelated stuff together in some kind of attempt to bash "modern feminism" I can agree there is a lot of societal pressure to enroll your little kiddo into a bagillion silly programs and stuff, but that hardly has anything to do with childcare costs or feminism.

The logic is both parents have to work to afford kids. Why do people think this is true?

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#429

Post by yters » Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 2:37 AM UTC

usaar333 wrote: post #397

yters wrote: post #156

If child care is so expensive, wouldn't the income loss of one parent staying at home be irrelevant? Plus, the parent could find some simple side gigs that fit into at home childcare, or even do paid childcare themselves. I think the real problem is people don't like taking care of kids, and would rather have a stranger do the job. Understandable since kids are noisy, disobedient, stinky little things, but we were al…

> If child care is so expensive, wouldn't the income loss of one parent staying at home be irrelevant Well, no. You might still come out ahead even if childcare consumes 60% of the lower earners' after tax income. Also, the big issue is what to do once the kids don't need such heavy parental attention. Sucks to have lost all your work skills. Also can lead to problematic power dynamics in the relationship.

There is much more to life than a corporate career. I would love to be the stay at home dad with zero corporate skills myself. Again this perspective is due to our own weird societal perspective.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#430

Post by yters » Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 2:39 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #337

mc3 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Parent could find some simple side gigs Highly unlikely! Maybe for a 4 year old there could be some time during the day. Let's say 1 hour. The type of gig where you can do an hour of work and be paid for it ... won't pay much. Let's say $20. It is hardly worth it. Now compare that to being at work. > I think the real problem is people don't like taking care of kids, and would rather have a stranger do the job. I do…

> Taking care of your own kids is much more rewarding than going to work. If work is better it's because the job is great, not because the kids are annoying. Be careful; you're stating as fact something that is incredibly subjective. Regardless, "taking care of your own kids" encompasses a lot of things that are not at all like one another. Teaching a kid how to do math: rewarding. Cleaning up after your kid accident…

Yes kids do many horrible nasty disgusting things. We romanticize children to their detriment, making us unable and unwilling to stare into the abyss that is toddlerhood and deal with it head on.