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How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

markosaric.com

421–430 of 570 posts

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#421
Great post, although I'm a little meh on lazy-loading images. I like when the whole page is finished loading the moment I think it's finished loading. But more to the point, lazy-loading can be a crutch just like AMP is, for solving problems that shouldn't exist, such as: your page is big & bloated. If you keep it small, there's no need for lazy-loading. But you have to limit the number of images, and optimize the ones that are there. And probably only one video per page. Horrors! Obviously none of this works when the page is effectively infinite in size - such as when you're trying to give the user the addictive excitement of scrolling through a continuous, visually-rich "feed".

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#422
post #30

I worked on amp for a leading newspaper, and everyone who says that amp is about "making the web faster on mobile" is either very naive or doing marketing for google. For publishers, amp is about trying to top the results on google search and capture traffic, it's their only motivation to publish their content using amp, and the only metric they look in order to evaluate the results. Once they have their amp content,…

Of course AMP has other motives than simply making the web faster for mobile, but it also does make the web faster for mobile. I guarantee the AMP version of that paper's mobile website provided a significantly better user experience than the normal version. That is why AMP has been successful, and it's why I will continue to click on AMP links whenever available. Is giving Google that much control ideal? Of course n…

> but it also does make the web faster for mobile.

AMP probably help making some previously bad-written amd bloated websites less slow, but it doesn't make them fast either.

HN is a fast website. The old reddit was a reasonably fast website. The new reddit (with AMP) is slower on my phone than the old one. It's still faster than the worst websites I browse on mobile, but it's far from being the fastest, and it's one of the slowest I actually use on my phone (simply because I usually don't browse websites that are too slow).

AMP isn't about speed.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#423

"How to make your sites faster than AMP without using AMP" leaves out "locally cache a copy of your site in a CDN that is geographically close to your users." Which is the actual mechanical part of AMP that makes it technologically interesting / valuable to content providers and countries distant from the creation of most content.

It also omits the part where google starts preloading and rendering the AMP page when the user is still on the search results. Without that, AMP is often no faster than many non-amp pages.

Otoh, without AMP that would bring even a PC to its knees.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#424
post #30

I worked on amp for a leading newspaper, and everyone who says that amp is about "making the web faster on mobile" is either very naive or doing marketing for google. For publishers, amp is about trying to top the results on google search and capture traffic, it's their only motivation to publish their content using amp, and the only metric they look in order to evaluate the results. Once they have their amp content,…

Of course AMP has other motives than simply making the web faster for mobile, but it also does make the web faster for mobile. I guarantee the AMP version of that paper's mobile website provided a significantly better user experience than the normal version. That is why AMP has been successful, and it's why I will continue to click on AMP links whenever available. Is giving Google that much control ideal? Of course n…

> a lot better than the alternative

There are more alternatives. IIRC the goal in 56k days was to make the page load inside 10 seconds. People managed.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#425
post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See the list of natively supported Ad networks in AMP: https://amp.dev/documentation/components/amp-ad/#supported-a... There are about 200 in that list and any network can submit a config to be added, it's just a pull request away.

so AMP is like the play store but for advertisers?

Yes. The readers are the product.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#426

I don't understand how Google's AMP business strategies are dissimilar to what Microsoft got in trouble for with Internet Explorer. Would be interested in what someone who is knowledgeable on that topic has to say.

One could argue, that it never really got Microsoft in _that_ much trouble. They retained Internet Explorer, and really all the requirements put on them by the U.S. and EU combined didn't amount to much. Not saying it _shouldn't_ have gotten Microsoft into that much trouble, just that it did not.

It has been argued that Microsoft (higher management) missed the Web and/or the smartphone because they were caught up in litigation.

Imagine the position Google would be in today if both Chrome and Android were controlled by Microsoft.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#427

For those interested in security - AMP basically forces the iframe javascript sandbox security model. https://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/security/sandboxed-i... Even reputable web pages tend to have a metric TON of non-sandboxed javascript from third parties. If you care about your security this is a risk. If you stick with AMP - this is - by spec - prohibited. Something to think about as you browse the web gobb…

> For those interested in security - AMP basically forces the iframe javascript sandbox security model.

AMP is the wrong way to address this. Using a good browser is the right way.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#428
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see someone is watching too much MSNBC.... >>Candidate A: ... I am sure you have evidence based proof of all of this correct? >>>Candidate B: Don't make me laugh, Candidate B is just as corrupt, and has no concept of Freedoms. Candidate B believes the Constitution grants rights, instead of limiting government, they believe there are no limits at all to government Candidate B's party is also the source of a good chu…

>I see someone is watching too much MSNBC.... All cable news is terrible, but obviously you disagree as your opinions have been written for you by Fox News opinion hosts ("Fake News"). Literally, you have expressed 0 opinions that were not written for you by Hannity or Tucker. >I am sure you have evidence based proof of all of this correct? Of course, if you actually followed the multiple court cases exposing this co…

>>>one of his victims gave a sworn affidavit to that effect.

I see you confuse Accusation with evidence, a " sworn affidavit" is not evidence, it an an accusation of which our legal system demands we assume innocence until guilt is proven with actual evidence. Which is why those cases went no where because there is no evidence to support the accusations

>>>court filings demonstrating the facts of his legendary multi-hundred-million emoluments violations, enriching himself by ordering our government to spend taxpayer money at his private businesses solely for his own benefit.

This is where you may have a case, but do date no one has provided evidence of actual enrichment, given Trump claims to be hosting the events at cost, and often times it has been proven that comparable venues for events would be considerably higher in costs

Though it is not good from an optics stand point

>>>The corruption of Trump is at all levels, from ordering the military to drive 100 miles out of their way to spend double the market rate at his personal facilities

The story links does not claim double the costs, in fact is claims it was less than a comparable hotel, nor does it say Trump ordered the military to go there but rather the military personnel chose that on their own

Might want to read your own sources next time

>>>This is hilarious nonsense. Not only is it false,

Not it is not false at all, the entire purpose of the document was We the People were granted a limited number of powers to the government, that is why there are enumerated powers

>>>The Constitution doesn't "limit" government when it creates a sovereign Congress which can pass any law including updating the Constitution.

Congress has ZERO authority to update the Constitution, their authority only allows the Congress to submit to the States and the People Amendments to the Constitution. They have no power to amend it on their own. Zero, none, zilch

Congress is also not the only way to amend the constitution as the People, and the States have the ultimate power over the congress.

In your Federalist system the Congress is not, and should not be the most powerful branch. The States acting as a collective are, and should be.

>>>you're confusing the dual duties between the Constitution (defining government power) and Bill of Rights (limiting it).

No I am not, Article I Section 8 lays out the only powers granted to the government, James Madison predicted people would mis understand the Bill Of rights exactly as you have, stating

"I go further and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers which are not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed? I will not contend that such a provision would confer a regulating power; but it is evident that it would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretense for claiming that power. "

The constitution defines a limited form a government and limited powers in scope. The Bill Of Rights simply codifies a few of the most important rights, while it does limit government, the constitution it self is also a limiting document

>>>Wake up my man! Donald Trump views himself your King, not your President

You have confused me for a Trump Supporter, I am libertarian. In 2016 I voted for Gary Johnson.

However I will say Trump was the lesser of 2 evils over Hillary Clinton (talk about corrupt), and based on the Front runners for 2020 for the Dems he will also be the lesser of 2 evils as there is no way Biden, Sanders or Warren will win.

>>>Fact: The only President in the modern era to return a surplus to the treasury was a liberal. Reagan QUADRUPLED the debt. Bush left us with a $1.2 trillion dollar deficit, while Obama lowered it by 70% to $400B!

Not fact.. Obama did not lower the National Debt at all, in Sept 2009 (9 mos after talking office) the National Debt was 11.9 Trillion, in Sept 2016 (3mos before he left office) the National Debt was 21.5 Trillion, so he added 7.7 Trillion in 8 years or about 960 Million per year in deficits

For Bush in Sept 2001 the National Debt was 5.8 Trillion, in sept 2008 the national debt was 10.02 Trillion, adding 4.4 Trillion or about 550 Million per year even adjusting for Inflation that is about 700 billion in 2016 Dollars, Thus Obama added considerably more money annually to the national debt that Bush did.

Since 1941 5 Presidents droped the Debt as a Ratio of GDP, and 1 lowered the Debt in real dollars.

Of those Presidencies, 3 were Democrats, and 2 were Republicans.

However Given that the Far left now believes Obama is a Conservative, I have a feeling they do not believe Bill Clinton, Truman, or Johnson to be "Liberal" enough for their wokeness

you find me a Roosevelt/Truman Democrat and maybe I would get behind the Democratic party again, Biden, Warren, and Sanders are not Roosevelt/Truman Democrats

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#429

I think there needs to be a real alternate solution from Google for longer term change. (if Google wants to stay relevant) Can they just penalize slow/large file size sites in their index? This seems like the underlying goal behind AMP and Chrome's Lighthouse (site audit tool) any way. This would make a lot of sites fast in the next couple months. But maybe Google doesn't really want that?

> Can they just penalize slow/large file size sites in their index? Well, that would be bad for the independent web, wouldn't it? I mean, you'd be penalising sites with large amounts of content, that aren't on a CDN. Large images or videos, for example, might be the entire point of the page in the first place. I don't want to be directed to to a webpage about an artist (for example) that has the crappiest, smallest a…

> Well, that would be bad for the independent web, wouldn't it?

Google already effectively omits most of the independent web anyway. It strongly favors the large commercial websites instead.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#430
post #7

> Don't use Google search. This is easier said than done, as the other search engines are still not as good as Google, even though Google's results have been getting worse. This may be a controversial opinion, but it's not what my comment is about. I'm going to make a more scandalous suggestion. Don't use search engines at all. The idea that a centralized one-size-fits-all search engine is necessary is preposterous.…

I like the idea, but I often find search results on the sites themselves crude and lacking. For example the wikipedia or reddit search, both are not so great.

And what about if I want to search for a band, and I don't know if they have a website, a facebook page, a soundcloud page or if they have most of their material on youtube. Do I manually need to search and check and compare different platforms until I find the one where the band chose to host their content?

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