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WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

mattstoller.substack.com

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Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#421

Post by rchaud »

lsiebert wrote: post #329
rchaud wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point the author was trying to make with "counterfeiting" wrt the subprime crisis is like this: counterfeit goods offer superficial similarity to the real thing, but are made of inferior materials when you unpack them. During the GFC, toxic mortgages were bundled in with mortgages with a high probability of repayment. Since the debt rating agencies gave those mortgage backed securities a AAA rating withou…

I take your point, though counterfeit goods aren't necessarily made of substandard materials. There are plenty of ways to skimp and then take advantage of the brand's existing reputation beyond shoddy crafting.

I was thinking 'counterfeit' in terms of things like baby formula and plastic rice, which cause severe consequences when co-mingled with regular inventory. I believe that's the scenario the author was referring to. For things like knockoff handbags, the materials used are largely the same and the price premium is heavily dependent on brand itself and not the cost of production and regulatory compliance.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#422

Post by NCWV »

nemothekid wrote: post #244
blueboo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, it’s true. Amazon did predatory price for several years, subsidising sale and delivery with venture capital. I’m baffled by the nonsense point about reinvesting profit from a lack of profit. AWS doesn’t excuse the years of cynical predation. 50% of a market is easily enough to dominate and control one, of the other players aren’t the same order of magnitude of influence.

> Amazon did predatory price for several years, subsidising sale and delivery with venture capital. Amazon was founded in 1994 and went public in 1997, and sold more than books in 1998. Where does "several years of subsidy with venture" factor into this? It's also hard to believe that Amazon weathered the dotcom crash while losing money.

It took Amazon more than 14 years—58 quarters after its May 1997 initial public offering—to make, cumulatively, as much profit as it produced in the latest quarter alone. Keep in mind that Amazon consistently lost money for its first several years as a public company.

https://qz.com/1196256/it-took-amazon-amzn-14-years-to-make-...

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#423

Post by rhizome »

dboreham wrote: post #340
rhizome wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep: one major advantage of bookstores is that their recommendation engines work several magnitudes better, and reliably. I believe they always will, too. I think it's also possible that at least part of Amazon's success was due to creating/increasing price sensitivity in an era where wage stagnation has become more and more apparent. That is, they are also the Dollar Saver & K-Mart of the Internet. The segments that…

>recommendation engines work several magnitudes better, and reliably Surely that's only true for a vanishingly small subset of fields of interest? e.g. I want to read books on construction site drainage. Is the dude in Borders going to have any tiny clue about that?

Surely that's only true for a vanishingly small subset of fields of interest?

I mean come on, Amazon didn't invent obscure topics. Bookstore people would know more specialized stores, though this was naturally less true at chain stores. This was at least as effective as Amazon giving you a list of other books bought by people who bought the one you're looking at.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#424

Post by tracker1 »

Lost me at calling the Sprint/T-Mobile merger "illegal" ... I mean, I was pretty interested in the content up until that point. WeWork itself lost me at "no meat" will be reimbursed or paid for.

The WeWork CEO is in my opinion a charlatan douchebag, but the author just feels like a twice burnt socialist by the time you get halfway through, and I stopped reading.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#425

Post by tracker1 »

WalterBright wrote: post #204
hef19898 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree with the last pint, people completely tend to ignore the effort and attention to detail Amazon puts into executive and planning. That plus a very sound strategy. Also Amazon was profitable, even if just barely, for the most time while growing appr. 20% constantly. Not comparable to, say, WeWork from what I know. But it shows how powerful that narrative can be.

I'm pretty sure Amazon was profitable all along - it's just that the profit was all spent on expanding the business. Hence, there was no taxable profit. Amazon was also able to make money selling products at little or no markup by taking advantage of the float. They'd collect money from the purchaser immediately, and would pay the vendor after 90 days. Then, Amazon would make interest on that money for the 90 days. I…

Personally, I think companies should have one of two models, growth or dividends. In the end, it really shouldn't be companies paying taxes (or meddling in politics), they should be growing, or paying out dividends that are taxed.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#426

Post by tracker1 »

Kaiyou wrote: post #386
munk-a wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bookstores provide a lot of service value, a decent bookstore will allow you to find similar material, allow you to browse as you please (instead of the skimpy sample pages), usually contain an expert that can offer advice and allow you to walk out with your purchase. Additionally it's common to see a heavy effort at investing in the atmosphere. Amazon has succeeded at beating bookstores in none of these categories -…

Bookstores only offered negative value to me, outside of selling me what I wanted. Amazon allows me to purchase stuff without having to interact with another human. Not everyone is extroverted and introverts get drained by human interaction. I don't even have to talk to a human when returning stuff.

The only way you get past that is by forcing yourself to be uncomfortable. It's worth it. It's a learned and reinforced behavior. Much like the child who only eats hot dogs and mac and cheese, and their parents never really made them do otherwise. Now they're in their 30's, living in their house and don't have a job, still eating junk food, but now they have diabetes.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#427

Post by skinnymuch »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #354
skinnymuch wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Softbank didn’t start investing in WeWork until others had gotten it to a $16B valuation 3-4 years ago. A lot of the investors weren’t SV but some were in its history.

> others had gotten it to a $16B valuation Which just shows how much "valuation" is bullshit. I would've thought that was clear ever since 37Signals were (sarcastically) valued at $100B in 2009: https://signalvnoise.com/posts/1941-press-release-37signals-... (They repeated the joke at least in 2011 and 2015. Maybe 2009 wasn't the first time either)

Yeah for sure. I think we are on the same page. I was specifically pointing out the OP seemingly putting SV at odds with WeWork implying WeWork is ridiculous with ego, money, et al, and not SV.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#428

Post by Nasrudith »

dv_dt wrote: post #397
Nasrudith wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is only because of the relative age of sectors given the sheer number of times airlines got bailed out.

I don't think the magnitude is remotely close, but perhaps I'm off here? What airline bailouts are you thinking of?

The multibillion post 9/11 ones for one both post attack and Iraq wars and SARs related travel reductions. If you count uniquely privileged bankruptcies and other activities there is a whole lot of the 20th century to include.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#429

Post by Kaiyou »

tracker1 wrote: post #426
Kaiyou wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bookstores only offered negative value to me, outside of selling me what I wanted. Amazon allows me to purchase stuff without having to interact with another human. Not everyone is extroverted and introverts get drained by human interaction. I don't even have to talk to a human when returning stuff.

The only way you get past that is by forcing yourself to be uncomfortable. It's worth it. It's a learned and reinforced behavior. Much like the child who only eats hot dogs and mac and cheese, and their parents never really made them do otherwise. Now they're in their 30's, living in their house and don't have a job, still eating junk food, but now they have diabetes.

No need, I already have a job and eat healthy. It's not that I can't do human interaction, it's that it drains me.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#430

Post by tracker1 »

Kaiyou wrote: post #429
tracker1 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way you get past that is by forcing yourself to be uncomfortable. It's worth it. It's a learned and reinforced behavior. Much like the child who only eats hot dogs and mac and cheese, and their parents never really made them do otherwise. Now they're in their 30's, living in their house and don't have a job, still eating junk food, but now they have diabetes.

No need, I already have a job and eat healthy. It's not that I can't do human interaction, it's that it drains me.

My point was, the more you do it, the better you get at it... kind of like exercise or anything else. By avoiding interactions, it makes it worse over time.
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