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Too Many Video Streaming Choices May Drive Users Back To Piracy

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Re: Too Many Video Streaming Choices May Drive Users Back To Piracy

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have no idea how utterly janky Plex and torrenting is. Compare these experiences: 1. Search Netflix. Discover it's not there. 2. Search Amazon. Discover they have it, but it's not available for free as part of your subscription. 3. Search Hulu. Leave Hulu, because it's not there. 4. Finally go back to Amazon and rent the movie, not sure why you're paying for Prime if you still have to pay on top of that for hal…

Or just do what normal people do: 1. Search Google for movie you want to watch. 2. Google shows a handy "Available on" frame at the top of the page, with prices (if applicable) and services that it's on. 3. Click the link. 4. Watch. And you can rest easy knowing that you're not breaking the law because you're cheap and for some reason feel entitled to getting things for free.

> 2. Google shows a handy "Available on" frame at the top of the page, with prices (if applicable) and services that it's on.

Does it, though? https://imgur.com/Yxac3mL

I turned off my ad blocker and all other Chrome extensions and tried again before taking this screenshot, and really have no idea what you're talking about.

Re: Too Many Video Streaming Choices May Drive Users Back To Piracy

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piracy is copyright infringement or license term violations. Theft is a property crime. These are different things. Those heavily invested in intellectual property rights laws would like to conflate them, but they are--and always will be--fundamentally different offenses. And the industry propaganda is frankly ridiculous. Hell yes, I would download a car. But not if it came loaded up with malware, spyware, region-loc…

Piracy = Stealing From https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/piracy piracy (noun) The unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work. Synonymns: illegal reproduction, plagiarism, illegal copying, copyright infringement, bootlegging, stealing, theft Call things by the wrong name to make yourself feel better all you want, but it's still stealing.

You may attempt to influence behavior and ethics by redefining the meanings of words, or by confusing one meaning of a word with another, but I can't guarantee it will be successful.

If I were to "pirate" an entertainment file, I would not alter my self-image to believe that I am now "a thief", just because you're quoting dictionary definitions at me. I may still feel vaguely guilty about it, but nowhere near the level of guilt I might feel by walking over to my neighbor's driveway and stealing their car, even though the open-market value of the car may be only $5k, and the open-market value of the recording may be $5M.

This difference arises because when I copy something, I do not deprive the person in possession of the use of it. If I steal, I do. The concept of dispossession is fundamental to the concept of theft. When I take your thing, you no longer have it. When I copy your thing, we both have it. If you are then put out because I am no longer motivated to rent your thing, that's the result of your improper assumption that the idea of the thing belonged to you exclusively.

When "theft" moves from the physical to the intangible, it becomes plagiarism or counterfeiting. It is a greater sin to cut out the credit scroll from the end of a movie than to copy it without paying. It is a greater sin to copy the maker's mark than to copy the design it marks.

I am not the sort to lie to myself to influence my own state of mind. Things are what they are, and if that state cannot be conveyed effectively with words, then the language is at fault. The words must change, rather than my mental model of reality. If you cannot separate in your mind the definition of "piracy" that concerns intangible property from the definition of "stealing" that concerns tangible objects, I would suggest using instead a term that is more descriptive, and not quite so ambiguous, such as "copyright infringement". If one cannot be a "pirate" without being a thief, then copyright infringers will simply cease to be "pirates".

You can't change reality by altering the description of reality. If you perfectly duplicate a copyright-protected file in a manner not allowed by fair use or by an implicit or explicit license granted by the privileged holder of the copyright, the holder is neither dispossessed of their file, nor deprived of any reputation benefit which may be associated with their control of the copyright. Copyright infringement is therefore not theft. If we cannot agree on what words mean, we cannot meaningfully communicate. And if someone is changing the meanings of their words mid-conversation, that might be perceived as dishonest communication.

Re: Too Many Video Streaming Choices May Drive Users Back To Piracy

#423
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inconvenient part is I have to labor for income to pay for all these services. That's really a bummer because I prefer to not labor. Additionally, I am in 6 countries for 9 months of this year. It is inconvenient that YouTube TV tells me the $35 I am paying them buys me absolutely nothing, despite the app saying "some content and local channels" will not be available, Netflix forces me to stop halfway through a s…

It's my understanding that the issues with international content distribution have to do with regulatory differences across borders, not the streaming services themselves.

Segmented distribution, be it to exclusivity silos or regional isolation, doesn't work.

My gut prediction is that if a service has a strong correlation to the desired content, E.G. Disney+ for "kids", it MIGHT work out, at least in the short term. HOWEVER, for wider culture, and particularly with different "tv networks" and studios with content libraries split among many services, the friction of not having a single place with everything, of not having a 'streaming store', will drive many to routing around the insanity and accessing the culture they want on terms they're willing to agree to.

Short version:

    * have everything, I mean it.
    * cost less than basic cable (total)
    * completely ad free (probably)
    * offline caching is a must (road trips)
    * capable of playing on anything I want (DRM free)

Re: Too Many Video Streaming Choices May Drive Users Back To Piracy

#424
post #10

Streaming "choices"? It's fragmentation and rent-seeking behavior. It is simply a case of the supply not meeting the demand at a reasonable price point, when there is an alternative.

Everyone wanted to get rid of the cable bundle and have channels a la carte. Be careful what you ask for.

What people wanted was for each channel to have its own subscription price, but all of them on the shelves of the same big-box store. With fewer ads, preferably.

The choice people have now is to pay $200/month at the big box store for a pre-loaded shopping cart of channels, with maximum ads, or to pay $10/month, a dozen different times, to go all over town picking up one channel at a time from little niche stores that only sell that channel, some that come with ads, and some that don't.

Multiple streaming marketplaces that all have the capability to connect all the same vendors to the marketplace customers would satisfy the consumer demand. But right now, everybody is taking their content back to put in their factory-direct exclusive content stores.

In the physical goods world, someone could buy at the factory store, ship at their own expense to the common marketplace, and resell at their own risk with a markup. Consumers would pay the markup as the cost of convenience. But in the digital world, you can't necessarily resell anything, even if you bought the right to use it yourself.

So we have still never received what we have repeatedly asked for. Netflix-by-shipped-disks approached it, because it could buy the disks at retail, and mail them around at its own expense, without getting any further permission. Netflix-by-download cannot, because the streaming rights are revocable, time-limited, and subject to constant haggling and renegotiation by the sellers every time the contracts expire.

Fragmentation is not ordering from the a la carte menu; it's getting fries from McDonald's, a shake from Wendys, sandwich bread from Panera, meat from Arbys, lettuce from Taco Bell, tomato from Subway, and spending three hours in the car just to get your lunch. A la carte means you can order your whole lunch at one place, getting just what you want, and not getting something that you don't want means you pay less overall for your meal.

Re: Too Many Video Streaming Choices May Drive Users Back To Piracy

#425
post #374

I was never patient enough for piracy as it takes diligence to find reliable sources. One thing that does irritate me is this general antipiracy attitude on the web today. It's like the entire population works for Big Tech. It used to be if you did enough searching, you could find pretty much anything you wanted, but now everyone acts like the piracy police and gets all offended if you even insinuate piracy. Probably…

I suspect they are a tad annoyed that you are potentially getting something for free that they payed for.

Re: Too Many Video Streaming Choices May Drive Users Back To Piracy

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plug the hard drive into the TV or mobile device. I'm pretty sure mobile devices support USB harddrives these days, but I know for sure "smart TVs" do. If you prefer dumb tvs (as I do) plug an old computer into that. Or if you want to save power, plug a new computer into it. Or get something that supports DLNA (e.g. a playstation or I believe roku's and roku-like devices) and use a DLNA server on your NAS/workstation…

The people on HN that care more about saving $8 than the headache of both finding pirated media, lugging around an external hard drive, making sure that the movie is a supported format or converting it to a supported format. HN users seem to be way out of touch with the average user.

Virtually anything you pirate these days will be supported on virtually anything you might want to watch movies on these days. The obscure edge-cases are things that HN users might be aware of, but simply aren't a practical concern in practice. DLNA is generally the case where you might run into issues, but a transcoding DLNA server solves that problem.

Not to mention it greatly simplifies other matters. If you drop a bunch of movies onto your kids tablet, you no longer have to worry about being away from a cell tower or wifi AP. Furthermore, concerning this very article, there is the matter of too many streaming platforms existing. Maybe you only need Disney because you don't let your kids consume any other brand. But probably more likely, there are numerous desirable movies that are on one streaming platform but not another, or on none at all. And a movie that might be on a platform one year could be gone the next. A harddrive full of movies avoids all of this mess. Subscribe to two or three services a year and you'll be spending a lot more than $8 a month. Maybe it still seems trivial to you with an inflated tech salary, but I know a lot of people who think a single netflix subscription is too expensive so they share an account with other friends/family. This is pretty common.

> HN users seem to be way out of touch with the average user.

I am certainly not out of touch with my own friends and family!

Re: Too Many Video Streaming Choices May Drive Users Back To Piracy

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re willing to pay, why not rent from the iTunes Store / Amazon Prime? Pick one, they’ve had all the movies / TV shows I wanted to watch, which are not all mainstream. If there’s an exception and there’s something you don’t find it there - well, do you, but I really don’t understand how piracy is the default answer to convenience with people claiming they have the willingness to pay. Someone else commented abou…

I recently rented a movie on amazon, and then I didn't have the option to get english subtitles, only subtitles in my native language. I wonder why that is, and I'm assuming it is because of some cumbersome contractual relations. On a DVD I'm pretty certain I could have gotten English subtitles. So now I'm paying, but I still get sub-par content? I ended up using a plugin to add the subtitles back in, but that plugin…

Go to a different country, and Netflix offers a different set of subtitles for a given title. Why can't I get Swedish subtitles in the US, for titles Neflix has the subtitles? I know this is to simplify the UI, but just offer it as an advances option, like they do for non-apathy mode (ie, stop playing at the end of one episode so I don't lose a day sitting on the couch).

Re: Too Many Video Streaming Choices May Drive Users Back To Piracy

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not really what it's about. You have no idea how utterly janky Plex and torrenting is. I don't know anything about Plex, but torrenting is pretty effortless compared to figuring out which streaming service what you want to watch is on, figuring out how to get that, evaluating other content it has trying to justify the price, figuring out how to get it to your tv, and figuring out how to use it. The only thin…

The Plex server is basically OK, the trouble you have is with the Plex clients. I bought an Xbox One instead of a PS4 even though I like the anime games on the PS4 because the Xbox One has a perfect Plex client and the PS4 client is known to be "janky" I struggled with cheap Android TV devices and broke down and bought a NVIDIA Shield TV because it has a perfect Plex client too with adequate hardware.

>NVIDIA Shield TV because it has a perfect Plex client

Pending you don't want to watch something in Dolby Vision.

I can either have Dolby Atmos come from the shield and a HDR video, or Dolby Vision through the TV and compressed AC3 audio of some kind from the TV.

Asking for both is apparently too much...

Re: Too Many Video Streaming Choices May Drive Users Back To Piracy

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not really what it's about. You have no idea how utterly janky Plex and torrenting is. I don't know anything about Plex, but torrenting is pretty effortless compared to figuring out which streaming service what you want to watch is on, figuring out how to get that, evaluating other content it has trying to justify the price, figuring out how to get it to your tv, and figuring out how to use it. The only thin…

What percentage of URLs returned from a google search of "the pirate bay" are fraudulent and serve malware? What percentage of torrenting clients are some degree of badware. You can find the good ones, but if my parents were going to torrent stuff they'd either be scared away or end up with crap on their computer.

I totally agree. Torrenting (and other piracy) is easy until a necessary part in your workflow is taken down. Finding a replacement is a pain, unless you have someone giving recommendations. Thankfully TPB and co seem quite durable.

Re: Too Many Video Streaming Choices May Drive Users Back To Piracy

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we also have statistics on the number of phones sold per year and the number of tablets. People are buying fewer tablets than phones and that is attributed mostly to people buying larger phones. Also, it takes some amount of extra work to create an iPad app than an iPhone app. Once again, is the entire media industry delusional or should they be taking advice from HN users?

Why do you think them making apps implies they're used a lot? It's enough that they're used some of the time by some subset of users to make it worth it to them - they get to have more control over experience, more ability to scoop data, and they can offer the ability to locally cache whole movies, which they can't do in a browser.

So in other words people pay for the convenience of streaming services and most people don’t want to carry around hard drives, use torrents, etc.

Just like I said....

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