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New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

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Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#421

Post by rolleiflex »

ddebernardy wrote: post #396
segfaultbuserr wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

80% of the time, for all online services, users get the choice to opt-out from the tracking, but trackers are on by default and users are encouraged to keep them on. This is what I call the fundamental principle of privacy settings: all privacy settings are based on the assumption that the vast majority of users will not understand, care, or make an effort to toggle all the knobs to opt-out from the tracking . This i…

> 80% of the time, for all online services, users get the choice to opt-out from the tracking That's purely theoretical. My browser is sending to not track headers, I've uBlock turned on, I nearly always reject tracking, yet I periodically delete thousands of cookies. (In case there are bored Safari extension developers who read this and feel the same: an extension that allows to whitelist cookies and rejects everyth…

Try the (very unhelpfully named) Cookie app. It’s a little sketchy looking and the website is poorly designed but seems to work for me. Get the non-app store one.

(No affiliation, I’m also evaluating it as we speak)

https://cookie5app.com

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#422

Post by anonytrary »

kache_ wrote: post #6

They constantly berate you to deactivate no tracking preferences on google maps. When you're aware of this fact you start seeing it everywhere, not just on google. For example, on Pinterest they will berate you to sign up using highlighted buttons on land, and the x button is out of the way on the top right corner. This end result is due to product managers/devs looking at conversion rates and optimizing for whatever…

I've actively been avoiding Pinterest and Quora because I know they'll pester me about signing up an hide their content behind a soft wall. I don't share links to these sites with anyone anymore.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#423

Post by tlavoie »

ddebernardy wrote: post #396
segfaultbuserr wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

80% of the time, for all online services, users get the choice to opt-out from the tracking, but trackers are on by default and users are encouraged to keep them on. This is what I call the fundamental principle of privacy settings: all privacy settings are based on the assumption that the vast majority of users will not understand, care, or make an effort to toggle all the knobs to opt-out from the tracking . This i…

> 80% of the time, for all online services, users get the choice to opt-out from the tracking That's purely theoretical. My browser is sending to not track headers, I've uBlock turned on, I nearly always reject tracking, yet I periodically delete thousands of cookies. (In case there are bored Safari extension developers who read this and feel the same: an extension that allows to whitelist cookies and rejects everyth…

It's not for Safari, but Firefox has container tabs, where this data is isolated per-container.

With the Temporary Containers extension, basically everyone gets their own container by default, and all that gets deleted 15 minutes after the container's last tab is closed.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#424

Post by dang »

ionised wrote: post #99
benschulz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude makes me so off the charts angry, I struggle to put it into words. I think Jews in Germany in the 1920s didn't think they were doing anything wrong, or feel a need to actively hide it.

Eric Schmidt is a horrible human being. Nothing surprises me coming from him.

Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#425

Post by heroprotagonist »

annapurna wrote: post #46

Android users are pushed through a variety of techniques: Deceptive click flow Hidden default settings Misleading and unbalanced information Repeated nudging Bundling of services and lack of granular choices* Deceptive click flow is the click-flow when setting up an Android device pushes users into enabling “Location History” without being aware of it.* Hidden Default settings is [when] setting up a Google account, t…

I particularly dislike seeing buttons like "Make Google Better" that if pressed will turn on search history.

That pushed me to Firefox and "temporary container tabs" add-on. Now I _can't_ be logged in while using search, so I can't accidentally press some deceptive button that will turn on additional collection. When the tab's gone, so are all the cookies. But mail.google.com and the login domains load in a persistent tab so I can still use those.

A search link fixer add-on prevents capture of what I clicked from that search menu, and the resulting page opens in a new temporary tab separate from the one I searched Google on originally. It's a second layer of separation so that I don't have to depend _just_ on ublock/umatrix to prevent what's sent back from resulting tab from correlating.

Still not perfect, but it makes me feel more comfortable. I still don't feel comfortable enough with results from DuckDuckGo to use it by default, but it has been getting a lot closer.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#426

Post by cjhopman »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #365
contravariant wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I'm convinced they're deliberately making their captcha's impossible, to annoy me for taking anti-tracking measures.

When I have the time (or have failed ten bloody CAPTCHA's in a row), I sometimes shoot out emails to whatever website or service I am trying to use, to advocate for the removal of reCAPTCHA. Unfortunately, as long as only a few people are complaining though, a lot of websites will continue to paste in Google code blocks willy-nilly.

Right. As long as the people sending in complaints is a (much, much) smaller problem than recaptcha solves, they'll continue using it.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#427

Post by DennisAleynikov »

quickben wrote: post #352
DennisAleynikov wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there might be implementations that don't do this for instance Siri or Bixby but that doesn't mean Googles approach is wrong. It can be unacceptable for your privacy and security threat model but for most it makes 0 difference wether the training continuously happens in the cloud or locally on the NPU inside your phone. Saving all the clips as much as people love to fear monger it is literally the strategy that objec…

"but for most it makes 0 difference wether the training continuously happens in the cloud or locally on the NPU inside your phone." Sadly, nobody will ever know if this is true as the choice doesn't exist.

the choice does exist, Apple iPhone does everything privacy first, Android does things cost savings first (aka the cloud)

Most people seem to like the Google Assistant for more natural interactions and only tolerate siri for her limited uses she can do.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#428

Post by codedokode »

That is correct. In an earlier comment [1] I have checked what options are enabled by default when registering or adding a Google Account to an Android Phone. For example, checkboxes "Backup to Google Drive" and "Save web and app activity" are enabled by default.

I suppose that many Android users might agree to these options without understanding completely what they mean or even without noticing because some of the options are hidden behind spoilers.

Android is an example of a case where you become a product although you have paid for the phone.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18493084

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#429

Post by codedokode »

throwawaymjabba wrote: post #402
contravariant wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I'm convinced they're deliberately making their captcha's impossible, to annoy me for taking anti-tracking measures.

I came to the same conclusion 2 weeks ago. Nowadays, I have to solve the captcha 15-20 times before it lets me in. So I have started purposefully making wrong answers-road instead of car, sky instead of cross walks etc. If self driving cars end up crashing, I may have contributed to it. Similar thing happened with YouTube too. They would always show me the same ad over and over. Even if I skip, I would get that ad mu…

Aren't you doing anything weird with your cookies? For me recaptcha is almost always solvable from the first try. Regarding Youtube, usually reloading the page 2-3 times allows me to skip ads, but this trick doesn't work with all videos.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#430

Post by codedokode »

throwawaymjabba wrote: post #414
kache_ wrote: post #6

They constantly berate you to deactivate no tracking preferences on google maps. When you're aware of this fact you start seeing it everywhere, not just on google. For example, on Pinterest they will berate you to sign up using highlighted buttons on land, and the x button is out of the way on the top right corner. This end result is due to product managers/devs looking at conversion rates and optimizing for whatever…

Another one is body sensors. I disabled body sensor permission for play services. Whenever I am using Google Maps, it would complain about the permission every few minutes. Thankfully, found later an option to disable that nagging in maps setting. Maps still worked fine.

It reminds me of Android 5 where every time you enable GPS, Google shows a popup asking you to share your location with them (very annoying). And besides, there is a checkbox "Don't ask me again", but if you tick it, the "Decline" button gets disabled to ensure that you don't make the wrong choice.

[1] https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/115944/how-to-pr...

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