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DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

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Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#421

Post by kiriakasis »

drewmol wrote: post #403
kllrnohj wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple collects and uses data all the time. Their marketing kind of claims they don't, but their privacy policy is very clear that they do. For example they continuously collect GPS position + list of WiFi APs from iPhone users to build their crowd-source'd wifi location database: "To provide location-based services on Apple products, Apple and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location da…

Also, Apple sells the default search provider space on their OS to Google for ~9B/year. So, does it really matter if Apple doesn't directly operate their advertising business and instead outsources it?

This says nothing about apple selling user data like google of facebook.

We should be more clear in distinguishing various levels of attacks to privacy.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#422

Post by rmc »

Aeolun wrote: post #206
tracker1 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how much do the database server(s) cost, not to mention pushing map tiles out in terms of data costs. DDG isn't exactly flush with cash like google and apple are.

Not much at all. In fact, since the tiles are only generated once, they could stick a CDN in front and never have to worry about anything but data transfer costs afterwards.

OSM data is constantly changing, being improved and expanded.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#423

Post by kiriakasis »

aeontech wrote: post #287
setr wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does services actually consist of? From [1], it looks like the major components are the app store, iTunes/Music (purchases, I assume) and the iCloud? I'm not seeing the data dependency that would incentivize Apple to look to Google for advice, at least not in this category. The closest might be recommendation systems, but afaik even Netflix only collects from its own information pools, and the main chunk of it i…

Sure, I am not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out that Apple is making data services work as a revenue stream just fine, without the privacy invasion. Your comment read a little bit like it was implying that Apple's privacy stance is only realistic because they are not making money on services, and if they were making money on services, they would start invading privacy.

Here there is a big difference still, their services are a marketfront. This is a lot different from Youtube for example.

Also keeping an internal profile of registered user is very different from squeezing every cent of advertising out all available user data

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#424

Post by loxs »

sjg007 wrote: post #361
mtmail wrote: post #9

Some paint it as if the main reason to switch was privacy ( https://www.imore.com/duckduckgo-switches-apple-maps-because... "DuckDuckGo switches to Apple Maps, because privacy"), but the previous map provider was mapbox (openstreetmap plus commercial sources) and I doubt mapbox collected more data than Apple is now.

Apple needs it's own search engine. This is step 1.

Wow, I hope they buy DDG

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#425

Post by arendtio »

aphextron wrote: post #115
grsmto wrote: post #8

I wish they were explaining why they moved away from Mapbox and OSM in general!

>I wish they were explaining why they moved away from Mapbox and OSM in general! Because it sucks. Isn’t that obvious? There’s no point in having a feature that nobody uses. I switched to DDG a few months ago and this has always been the one weakness. This is really good news IMO. Apple maps has come a long long way since launch, and their data is about on par with Google at this point. You can argue all day that of…

Well, the map quality depends on the region. So I could easily argue that OSM has much better quality than Google Maps, looking at Hamburg, Germany for example.

I know that the quality is not everywhere as good as there, but the quality varies for the other Map products too. So if it 'sucks' or the other thing 'sucks' greatly depends on where you currently are.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#426

Post by kiriakasis »

anth_anm wrote: post #214
Aunche wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with how much DDG's marketing is focused on trashing their competition. They deliberately obfuscate privacy issues to strengthen their narrative. Sure duckduckgo is a good company right now, but that's only because they're small. I doubt they'll stay that way when they capture a significant market share.

Why? That's the differentiator they chose to go for. You can argue that's it's dishonest, but i don't see the problem with the marketing.

Personally I find their writing mean... I do not love the super optimistic marketing lingo, but DDG sometimes sounds too vicious in their blog. (I still use them as main search engine, but I am not sure I would like them to go mainstream)

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#428

Post by t0astbread »

Brakenshire wrote: post #316
t0astbread wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're forgetting one detail that I think should be emphasized here: OSM is about free knowledge (as in freedom). You can use, modify and share OSM data however you want. Apple on the other hand is hoarding its information. You can only access it through their products in the ways they intended. They control everything (as always). I do believe it when Apple says they're respecting their users' privacy, just like I b…

It’s disappointing that DDG isn’t supporting an open infrastructure, but when you think about it their offering is in fact a closed infrastructure similar in principle to Apple’s. It is a closed product, but which promises to protect your privacy. That has value when choosing to use a service in the short term, but it’s not something to build on or to rely on in the long term, after all both companies could make any…

Agreed, even though it's extremely unlikely companies like Apple or DuckDuckGo will pivot.

Another big argument for supporting free software solutions is to do it for the people who want/need freedom (like whistleblowers or activists).

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#429

Post by metz999 »

mtmail wrote: post #9

Some paint it as if the main reason to switch was privacy ( https://www.imore.com/duckduckgo-switches-apple-maps-because... "DuckDuckGo switches to Apple Maps, because privacy"), but the previous map provider was mapbox (openstreetmap plus commercial sources) and I doubt mapbox collected more data than Apple is now.

As a user, the deciding point is quality of google maps versus the reality of the claim of privacy with apple maps. I have a hard time believing that current users of duckduckgo completely escaped google's data collection over the decades and by choosing to use apple maps have dramatically reduced their privacy exposure with a measurable impact on their lives.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#430

Post by Brakenshire »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #410
Brakenshire wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple can only use OSM data pre license change which is very old now, those links are to contributions Apple is making to OSM (similar to the big Microsoft contributions) which are probably there as a way of trying to prevent a Google monopoly, but not indications that Apple is using the data.

That’s not true. Apple is using and contributing current, ODbL-licensed OSM data.

How does that work? Do you mean using it behind the scenes? I thought ODbL prevented combinations unless the combined dataset could be released.
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