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Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

nytimes.com

421–430 of 494 posts

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is both an abnormal amount of promotions that you have somehow personally witnessed -- doesn't sound like you were even involved with, we'll also ignore implicit psychological biases here -- while you happened to overhear THE core group of people involved in some conspiracy to enable your overall incredibly inordinary talking point. There's a word for this: contrived. It is extremely unlikely that such a compan…

Account deleted

>I only wanted to highlight there are companies on the other side of the spectrum too.

I am fully aware of that, hence some of my statements. I think it's contrived and not being completely honest, at the very least it seems pretty irrelevant.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Account deleted

There is both an abnormal amount of promotions that you have somehow personally witnessed -- doesn't sound like you were even involved with, we'll also ignore implicit psychological biases here -- while you happened to overhear THE core group of people involved in some conspiracy to enable your overall incredibly inordinary talking point. There's a word for this: contrived. It is extremely unlikely that such a compan…

[deleted]

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#423
I have a few honest and open questions as a US-based small business with a handful of women who have recently had children or who are pregnant.

Do you guys have any advice for how to balance the impact to the results that we receive from those having children prior to vs after pregnancy and/or having children?

Example:

One individual is a phenomenal front-end website engineer. Her input has been critical in helping us solve a lot of engineering challenges and more forward in significant ways. When she became pregnant she had debilitating morning sickness so much so she could hardly function on a personal level. This morning sickness persisted for the last 5 months through the present day to the point where she's only be able to come to work (or even work from home/remotely) for perhaps 15 days sprinkled throughout the 5 months. We all value her opinion and expertise highly. We try to schedule meetings around when she might available (to the point of even having spontaneous "she's available" meetings) but even she doesn't know when she'll be able to work or operate productively. Further, her ability to code/design/be productive has plummeted to perhaps 5% of her original capacity. Do you guys have any tips on how to handle this situation? We thought about starting her maternity leave early (during pregnancy), but she'll definitely need that leave AFTER she has the baby. Perhaps we start the paid maternity leave during her pregnancy and then a leave-of-absence (unpaid) after the child is born? Is that fair to her? Is that fair to us? In many regards, we have a paid member of the team but without any of the capacity.

Another example:

We have another woman who is very detail-oriented. For years, her projects always came out flawlessly. She has an amazing talent to see all the different ways a project could go wrong and then she would plan accordingly to keep things on track. However, since her first child was born move than a year ago, she's been a completely different person. Her child still isn't sleeping through the night. She's sleep deprived in a big way. On many days, she's almost a zombie. Previously she was punctual, reliable, and focused. We're not sure what to do. We have offered to pay for sleep training for her baby which she has refused (and that's her right as a mother of her child), but we would like to have some form of productivity capacity from her. We don't want to let her go because we know what she is capable of. For the last 18 months, we've been struggling to balance what we can reasonably expect from her vs the demands/results that her role requires. Letting her go sounds like horrible, insensitive, and possibly illegal. Is reducing her compensation a fair trade? Ultimately, we're paying value to be delivered and that has been slashed to a fraction of her previous state.

Are there any tips, tricks, ideas, or ways of thinking that can help us be fair and equitable with these individuals in their unique circumstances while at the same time allowing ourselves to expect a reasonable amount of value from them in exchange for the compensation they receive?

A few other notes: 1. We offer 4+ months of paid maternity leave for having/adopting children. 2. We also offer paid paternity leave for male employees for having/adopting children.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#424
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they found out? Did they ask?

They asked about the resume gap from when she had our kids.

Well, that's like... a whole different situation. Why wouldn't you mention that ?

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#425
post #75
post #14

Personally experienced it. Wife worked at Google, had always positive performance reviews. Come pregnancy time she informed her manager, 3 days later they put her on a performance improvement plan. It didn't take long for them to realize they were making a big mistake, risking an expensive lawsuit so they let it go and let her have her paid 12 month leave. After returning she got the choice to do the PIP or take seve…

My wife interviewed at Google and was asked how she'd be able to meet the requirements of the job while taking care of young children; the discrimination persists even after pregnancy.

Wait... you guys had “pre-existing” kids and they asked that? What the actual f?

How did your wife respond? :)

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#426
post #55

This area is really tough. I feel terrible for women who experience this bias, but the solution is not nearly as obvious as with race/gender/age/religious/etc discrimination. In those cases the answer is: stop being biased. Let's say you're a small company and you can really only afford to have Even if they both plan to have 2 kids in the next 4 years, it's a biological reality that it will take the woman away from w…

If you're a 10 person company and more than 7 people are day-to-day critical you're going to have a lot of issues. When we were 8 people we had 2 parents go on 4 months of leave (with 3 month overlap). We missed them and vacation time was a little limited, but everything was fine. Companies need to account for the fact that they're comprised of human beings that reproduce. In terms of humanity you can't get much more…

> Companies need to account for the fact that they're comprised of human beings that reproduce.

If think that's the point, companies do account for that, by discriminating against women, onto which the bulk of the burden of reproduction falls.

Correcting this incentive structure is a prime job for government, else literally nothing can exist in few generations.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#427
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's a problem in developing countries, but population increase is very slow in the US. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/us/usa-population-grow...

It does not make sense to quantize this based on national borders. We're all in the same atmosphere and biosphere. And of course, any growth is bad in the current situation since the current level is so unsustainable - population should decrease, not increase.

Or, it should stabilize, and we should focus $$$ on sustainability rather than endless economic growth. Incidentally, the entirety of the world population could fit comfortably in the US alone, including the requisite farmland. Here's an interesting visualization of this:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/could-7-billion-people-live-in...

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#428
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually isn't a biological reality that the woman is away from work for longer. What's actually happening is that the man isn't expected to be away as long as the woman, so he doesn't take as much leave. It's a form of discrimination to make it the woman's problem because she's the one laid up in the hospital. Just because women are bearing the physical burden of the pregnancy, it doesn't mean it's solely their b…

> it actually isn't a biological reality that the woman is away from work for longer. What's actually happening is that the man isn't expected to be away as long as the woman, so he doesn't take as much leave. It's a form of discrimination to make it the woman's problem because she's the one laid up in the hospital. That's not completely correct when you factor in breastfeeding. Nowadays we do have the ability to ove…

I think you're continuing to add variables that disfavor women - but it's feasible to grant breaks so that women can feed their children in the middle of the day.

This feels like a problem of will, and maybe male chauvinism, not biology.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#429
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something that has always nagged at me in these discussions, and I've always been somewhat afraid to bring it up lest I misconstrue, but I want to try and figure this out. What's a state of affairs we can reach such that people don't become preemptively discriminatory for lack of being able to examine factors that would impact workplace performance? We agree, societally, that we shouldn't discriminate against…

The economy exists to serve the people not the other way around. The purpose of life is to preserve and develop life. If the economy is making it hard to live and reproduce the economy is maladaptive and will fail.

Reminds me of a time when G.K. Chesterton saw a banner that asked, "Should store clerks be allowed to marry?" To which he retorted, "Should store clerks be allowed to be store clerks?" We do tend to forget the proper order of things at times.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#430
The obvious solution that brings many other benefits is to allow people to work from home.

By simply removing the long commute the problem is already nearly solved, as all of a sudden people have two extra hours of productive work in many cases.

If a kid wakes you up at 3 AM, it helps to only have to wake up at 8AM instead of 6AM. Also, the levels of stress while working from home make for much more productive workers.

There are many other benefits, but making it easier to reconcile parenting with a full time job is one of the biggest.

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