I am against indiscriminately awarding H1B visas and shipping American jobs overseas or using cheap foreign tech labor to undercut American workers. American workers need jobs, to pay bills, to live, fair enough! Then force your American companies to stop hiring foreign workers, stop undercutting and outsourcing. But don't use racism, supposed Indian incompetence in tech work, stereotyping brown people as somehow stupid and not good workers and so on to create your fight.
The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?
421–429 of 429 posts
Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?
#422IT miracle? More like IT sham. The quality of engineers in India is sketchy at best in my experience. Lack of understanding and innovation is rife across the board, but they seem to be great at selling their service. This may be because of the "yes" culture other comments have mentioned, but I would guess it's got a lot to do with a massively undercut price. It is, however, a false economy, because you often end up i…
STOP creating racist stereotypes.
You do realise I'm Indian myself?! Not only that, I had to break away from the sham dev culture in order to become a good developer. Hence why I can see through the facade rather clearly.
Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?
#423I have worked as a backend developer in product company for about 8 years. I honestly never came across an US/foreign developer who is > 1.1X my ability. I guess except the big four companies all developers (US/indian) have same level of programming competence on average. The only variation is the cultural comfort.
Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?
#424Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are some really good Indian teams in the Banking sector. You do have to be careful of course, but I've worked with some excellent Indian colleagues over there in Hyderabad and Chennai. I think the thing is the banks and other big corporates hoover up the top talent, and retain it, which then becomes invisible to the wider tech industry. All the problems mentioned here do exist and are real, but they're not the…
There are definite exceptions. Were those people employed by your bank, or by an outsourcing company? The distinction is important, both in terms of quality and price. Internal hires are much more expensive (training, benefits etc), but generally better and less likely to leave. Outsourced staff basically don't care because they know they're being taken advantage of. So you get what you pay for.
You’re quite right, they were direct hires.
Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can always start your own company and compete with TCS :)
The business model of such companies is to bullshit and sometimes bribe the execs into a multimillion contract and then deliver crap (they often have threaten going to court to get paid for their non-services). Not everyone is willing to do that.
You can still run your own business honestly and not go for the shady contracts.
Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?
#426Earlier quoted context omitted.
> that sounds quite sad that they define their self-worth by some piece of paper given to them That sounds sad to you because you are looking at it from a Western perspective, when you have couple of hundred people interested for a job you can use a certification to filter lot of the candidates.
And like any metric that is easier to "game" you end up in the situation where a bunch of people go for the easy route of taking certifications because they act as a filter and that same filter doesn't work as intended because people are gaming the system. It's much harder to game a system where evaluation of a candidate's skills is the filter, to game this you become a cheater. Of course that it's also harder to sca…
> It's much harder to game a system where evaluation of a candidate's skills is the filter
Agree, which is why some Indian companies have started using skills based assessment websites now.
Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?
#427Earlier quoted context omitted.
What argument can you possibly make for an ethical burden that amounts to one-sided loyalty? The REASON is would be immoral to have no loyalty to an employer is because it makes the employers loyalty one-sided. If the employer abandons their loyalty towards employees, as all modern employers did throughout the 1980s and have now established as standard business practice, then there is no ethical burden on the employe…
There is no good reason at for any kind of ethic burden. Some people steal; some might have even stole something from you. Doesn't mean you have to too, and I doubt most people are held back only by law/punishment.
I don't think you can equate me leaving an employer "early", for some definition of early, to theft. As long as the contract is "at will employment", which majority of American job offers are (sorry for my America centric view), then the contract is AT WILL, in both directions. In my mind there is no ethical, moral or legal lapse.
Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?
#428Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing is, it's not their business. They just show that they saved money and get promoted on to another role. The mess, when it becomes apparent, is for someone else to clean up...
Okay then they are a dishonest toxic employee. The way to solve that is by trying to weed out such people in your hiring, and do due diligence on their previous employment record. I fail to see how that changes my conclusion.
This won't work, because those employees don't actually register as toxic for the company - au contraire: They have reached - and quite possibly exceeded - their predefined performance targets! They have done exactly what they were hired for.
You have to realize that things like long-term quality, or even reducing total costs for the company (only the silo is important!) is not a performance target in this scenario, and that's the root of the problem.
It's a systemic problem, a problem of corporate structure and incentives, and exactly the ecosystem where these kinds of contractors thrive.
Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?
#429I spend 6 months working from Sunnyvale and 6 months working from India. I have seen a remarkable improvement in quality of engineers. I think IT industry as such pretty much doomed because of automation, saturation and US immigration restrictions. The fresh graduates now I meet want to work on products. Products that are meant for Indian markets and other markets. India can take a big lead in AI and other things if…
Hi karishma1234, May I ask in which organization and in which domain do you work? Asking out of curiosity. Thanks.
I am a coder. I work in machine learning space.