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Android Oreo

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Re: Android Oreo

#421

Post by kalleboo »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #332
xorcist wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carriers are a red herring. The world at large couldn't care less about how the customers of AT&T can supposedly only install AT&T-approved firmware. Most people can, but they're not seeing any updates. Google needs to fix their upgrade story. Even if the North American customers continued to run old vulnerable versions forever, updating everyone else's systems would be a tremendous improvement. (It would also make i…

Do you have any facts to back this up? Prior to the iPhone changing how phones were sold-- carriers meddled with everything so they could get their hands in media playback, app sales, feature upgrades etc. I don't think much has changed in this where anyone gives them an inch (which is nearly everyone but Apple). Note: I worked for T-Mobile for four years prior and a little after the originals iphone came out.

Where I lived it was common before the iPhone for people to go to electronics stores or carrier-agnostic "phone stores" to buy their phones. You could get an unmolested phone on subsidy/contract and everything. This was in Europe though, where cheap prepaid SIMs for young people and MVNOs were already very popular.

Re: Android Oreo

#422

Post by kalleboo »

Tehnix wrote: post #405
rubyn00bie wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any facts to back this up? Prior to the iPhone changing how phones were sold-- carriers meddled with everything so they could get their hands in media playback, app sales, feature upgrades etc. I don't think much has changed in this where anyone gives them an inch (which is nearly everyone but Apple). Note: I worked for T-Mobile for four years prior and a little after the originals iphone came out.

Before the iPhone, how prevalent were software updates to phones? I know of no one who ever got had an update. There is absolutely no reason for carriers to need to do anything at all, else it would not make sense that I can change the SIM card out and voila I’m on a new carrier. The manufacturer is the one doing the testing, and the carrier simply provides the infrastructure. I feel US perhaps has a different experi…

Near the end of the dumbphone era I remember getting an OTA update to mine that added a chat-style view to SMS text messaging. I don't think the iPhone would even get OTA updates for years, it was all purely through iTunes.

Re: Android Oreo

#423

Post by josteink »

klondike_ wrote: post #67
Zee2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, even after years of following Android, I still don't understand what the carriers even do to the ROMs. It's not like it needs special proprietary software tweaks just to connect to an ordinary GSM band. And it's also not like I get any kind of visual voicemail, WiFi calling, etc baked directly into the system either. Those carrier features are usually still separate apps, anyway. Honestly, what are they doi…

Carriers generally have deals with other companies for preinstalled apps which may or may not still be active by the time it comes around for an update. Also they have to test the devices, but considering the sheer number of Android devices they probably prioritize new high end devices first. This problem is made worse on Verizon and Sprint which use CDMA 3G networks, as opposed to the worldwide GSM standard. Also th…

> Also they have to test the devices

Why? The whole point of GSM is that carrier and phone can (and should) be entirely disconnected, decoupled and only connected through the means of whatever SIM the user puts in his phone.

The notion that a carrier needs to be involved in the making of a phone makes about as much sense as if my ISP needed to test and "approve" what Ethernet hardware I use at home.

It's frankly none of their business.

> This problem is made worse on Verizon and Sprint which use CDMA

So don't use them, just like you wouldn't use an ISP which doesn't speak IP.

Re: Android Oreo

#424

Post by frik »

dcomp wrote: post #108

The most interesting part is the way they are planning on tackling fragmentation in O onwards with Project Treble [0] If your device ships with O it should be running an immutable semantically versioned HAL. In essence you should be able to be able to flash AOSP on every new device. No matter what the vendor does. Edit: I can see it now, in the technical specs of each device you will see a list of HAL Versions. The n…

"WiFi Assistant

Auto-connects you to high quality open WiFi and secures your connection with a VPN back to Google."

Let's hope the VPN can be set to non-Google too, or it's optional or opt-out feature.

Re: Android Oreo

#425

Post by josteink »

fabrice_d wrote: post #106
klondike_ wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carriers generally have deals with other companies for preinstalled apps which may or may not still be active by the time it comes around for an update. Also they have to test the devices, but considering the sheer number of Android devices they probably prioritize new high end devices first. This problem is made worse on Verizon and Sprint which use CDMA 3G networks, as opposed to the worldwide GSM standard. Also th…

This is about cost: updates sometimes fail (incredible, I know), and carriers are the first place people go to get their phones back in working order. This kind of support is quite costly so carriers don't push too hard for updates to happen.

> carriers are the first place people go to get their phones back in working order

That only applies to phone bought from carriers.

Most people buy them in electronic shops where they buy tvs and laptops and stuff (since that allows you to get the best deal any carrier can offer, and not just be restricted to one).

Re: Android Oreo

#426

Post by pjmlp »

robert_foss wrote: post #397
sitepodmatt wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android have been promising to finally tackle fragmentation in every release since KitKat. It seems people have a very short memory.

The code speaks for itself. Any Android implementation is now split in two halfs, one which is easily replaced and one which is not. If vendors choose to not use this feature it is on them.

Actually since Google is still allowing customizations, it will hardly change anything.

Re: Android Oreo

#428

Post by josteink »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #354
fabrice_d wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about cost: updates sometimes fail (incredible, I know), and carriers are the first place people go to get their phones back in working order. This kind of support is quite costly so carriers don't push too hard for updates to happen.

They want you renting a new phone from them every year. Dragging their feet on updates shifts sales to their newer lineup.

But if a carrier has the nerve to actually block updates to my phone and I find out, I'll switch my phone to another carrier the next day.

What's in it for them?

Re: Android Oreo

#429

Post by ndesaulniers »

pjmlp wrote: post #426
robert_foss wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The code speaks for itself. Any Android implementation is now split in two halfs, one which is easily replaced and one which is not. If vendors choose to not use this feature it is on them.

Actually since Google is still allowing customizations, it will hardly change anything.

Actually, this is not an allowed customization.

Re: Android Oreo

#430

Post by jdc0589 »

djsumdog wrote: post #365
dcomp wrote: post #108

The most interesting part is the way they are planning on tackling fragmentation in O onwards with Project Treble [0] If your device ships with O it should be running an immutable semantically versioned HAL. In essence you should be able to be able to flash AOSP on every new device. No matter what the vendor does. Edit: I can see it now, in the technical specs of each device you will see a list of HAL Versions. The n…

huh .. I always suspected Fuchsia/Magenta were going to be a basis for Android going forward to get around the fragmentation situation. They still could be in the future, since no one is really sure what they're being developed for.

i haven't read up on fuchsia/magenta too much yet, but my impression is that it's going to be a much larger shift in general.

If Google can take some less drastic strides to fix this problem before a huge change like fuchsia, theres probably a better chance for an easy(er) transition.

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