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The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

nytimes.com

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Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#421

Post by rdtsc »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #419
rdtsc wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the RNC wanted to show what has happened to employer-sponsored premiums under the Affordable Care Act, it should have started the clock in 2010, the year the law was passed. But that makes Obama look better. The rate of growth in average premiums from 2010 to 2014 is 22 percent. That's why factcheck should not be used to check... facts. Just as they claim the RNC have twisted this and that to make themselves loo…

They anticipated Obama care in 1999? Obama only took office in 2009.

Not they didn't.

But they did during 2009. By July, a number of bills were already approved by committees in the House. And the Fall is usually when the companies get prices for the next year. So it went up sharply then. Then in again in 2010. Price is not always comparable because the level of coverage had also changed. We had to get new plans and while they covered some mandatory free procedures and didn't have lifetime maximum, they had also bigger deductibles and a reduction in options and procedures covered.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#422

Post by mahyarm »

kalleboo wrote: post #416
FireBeyond wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so its not some unlimited spout of money you can abuse like medical insurance Apropos of outliers, this type of attitude is problematic and emblematic of issues in the US. "Needing healthcare" is not "abusing medical insurance".

I think he means the hospitals abusing it by billing inflated charges - not patients using healthcare.

Yes I meant that, thank you :)

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#423

Post by jxramos »

amalcon wrote: post #312
narrator wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I had back surgery, there were all these therapists coming in the moment I got out of surgery trying to get their 1 minute in. It was throughly ridiculous. One of them was attempting to do physical therapy and pulled on my leg a little and put me into so much pain I went into shock. She probably got her $600 bucks. I am with Kaiser now and it is the most BS free medical experience I have ever had. To fix healthc…

While this sounds nice, I've heard too many Kaiser horror stories from family in the DC area to ever consider them even if it were an option. They've nearly killed at least three relatives of mine. If your current doctor's approach is not working, there's usually nothing you can do about it. You are only allowed two opinions, both of whom work for the same people.

I was just talking with my wife the other night about how her aunt swears Kaiser killed her dad because he came in multiple times for this cough that bothered his throat. He kept being ignored and brushed aside, and low and behold full blown throat cancer took him out. From the initial doctor visit till his death a few years later or some significant chunk of time, he was estimated to have been in his early stages where treatment was on option. By the time it spread it was too late.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#424

Post by mcv »

ComradeTaco wrote: post #297
mistermann wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, which increases revenue for the medical establishment, while also helping some people (and harming others) in the process. For me to consider the Democrats as the true party of the people rather than a tool of corporations, I'd want to see the cost side of health care addressed as well. My question is: was it?

Obamacare only reduced the growth of healthcare costs, it did not stop the growth. The approach that most democrats believe would reduce cost is single payer or Medicaid for all.

I recently read that while 80% of Democratic voters support single payer, their members of Congress prefer something that keeps insurance companies in the loop snd profits high for the medical industry. Presumably because of donations.

If that's the case, then the difference between Democrats and Republicans is that the Dems want to insure the poor while still ensuring high profits for the industry, while the Republicans want to screw the poor while ensuring high profits for the industry. They differ on one very important issue, but are still mostly the same.

Actually reducing medical costs requires a far more thorough overhaul of the system.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#425

Post by fapjacks »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #393
moheeb wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with dungle6, whose comment is now dead. I say screw them and don't pay. Ignore collections for a few years and don't be a wuss about your credit score. Problem solved.

> don't be a wuss about your credit score. I don't get this statement. Not protecting your credit score can cost you real money. Yeah, the whole thing is a racket, and I frickin' hate it, but, pretending like you can ignore your credit score without impact seems counterproductive. I would really rather see this whole racket of a medical billing system held to account versus advocating that we allow them to punish us…

I agree with your second statement, but I have spent most of my 20s and a great portion of my 30s with crazy negative stuff on my credit report. I flatly refuse to pay outrageous collection fees, and there are at least three items on my credit report which are outright lies. For example, switching from Verizon to T-Mobile, and T-Mobile handed out gift Mastercards to pay the early termination fees for getting out of your Verizon contract. well, Verizon refused to accept my $350 gift Mastercard, so I mailed it to them certified mail. They received it. I have the receipt. But now I have a $400 item on my credit report that I refuse to pay. An administrative mistake the Army made, and now there's another $900 item on my credit report that I refuse to pay because it's a clerical error. That last one's interesting, because I have signed witness statements from a finance guy involved in making the mistake, yet they refuse to clear it, so I refuse to pay it.

Despite this, I have been able to get a car loan, I got a VA loan for a house, I have opened two credit cards (which I use responsibly) since then, and also was able to get a personal loan for an emergency six years ago. It is absolutely possible to do "normal" things. It's just been a matter of explaining the situation.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#426

Post by onion2k »

joshuaheard wrote: post #185
jackmott wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vote for candidates who will support single payer.

Ask Charlie Gard how single payer is working out for him.

Charlie Gard's parents were free to pay for experimental treatment throughout the course of his illness up until the point where legally they were stopped from doing something that was considered bad for him. Here in the UK we have a single payer public health service and privately paid services. People are free to choose which they use.

Even ignoring that fact though, the idea that hundreds of thousands of people should face financial ruin and all the negative societal effects that carries with it because extreme outliers need to be handled separately is an utterly broken way of running a healthcare system.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#427

Post by sah2ed »

parmta wrote: post #370
narrator wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I had back surgery, there were all these therapists coming in the moment I got out of surgery trying to get their 1 minute in. It was throughly ridiculous. One of them was attempting to do physical therapy and pulled on my leg a little and put me into so much pain I went into shock. She probably got her $600 bucks. I am with Kaiser now and it is the most BS free medical experience I have ever had. To fix healthc…

I work in investment banking and cover hospital facilities (i.e. the "hospital chains"). You are right that the Kaiser model, or what the industry calls fully integrated systems, can often produce more efficient healthcare. For people that aren't as familiar with the healthcare system, I thought it might be helpful to provide a brief overview of why that is the case. Since the ACA, there has been an emphasis on shift…

This was a long but very illuminating contribution.

Mind me asking what kind of work your investment bank does with the healthcare industry?

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#428

Post by foobarbazetc »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #154
Devthrowaway80 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it won't work. It works in every other developed nation in the world, and they all pay less money for better healthcare outcomes, but hey, the US is Totally Special.

Except that's not how it works everywhere else. Everywhere else the government shoves a telephone pole up the ass of taxpayers and then takes a few splinters to pay for healthcare.

Yeah... you're wrong. Why make these sorts of easily refutable statements?

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#429

Post by somecontext »

tptacek wrote: post #344
0xbear wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they do. Raise the deductible 5-10x and you can claim some pretty interesting "premium reduction" numbers.

Deductibles haven't 5x'd (let alone 10x'd) under the ACA, which, for what it's worth, caps deductibles. Before Blue Cross made it annoying to do this, we did the standard HSA+HDHP plan (most young families should HSA+HDHP), and it was a little annoying getting a bronze plan from BCBS with a deductible high enough to qualify as an HDHP for our HSA.

For some context, the Kaiser family foundation's 2016 Employer health benefits survey available at http://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2016-summary-of-findi... suggests that the average in-network deductible for a single worker has increased from $917/year in 2010 (when the ACA was passed) to $1,478/year in 2016 -- not adjusted for inflation. While more people are using high-deductible plans, the growth in any specific plan type (eg, HMO) is about the same.

Without adjusting for inflation, this growth is ~60% growth in 6 years, or a doubling time of ~9 years. After adjusting, it's more like 40% over the same 6 years or a doubling time of ~12 years.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#430

Post by omgtehlion »

madengr wrote: post #14
pascalxus wrote: post #3

So, basically, if you visit any emergency room then your handing them a blank Check and they can write whatever number on there they want. That's egregious beyond belief. I'm never one to call for legislation and price controls, but in the face of such adversity, I think it may be our last hope. I think they should either provide a quote before they offer the services or there should be a law limiting the amount that…

Yep. Took my wife to the ER last week for suspect appendicitis or diverticulitis. Last time this happened a CT scan alone was $3k ($11k prior to insurance reduction). My HDP is $4,500 OOP max per family member; $8,500 for family. What really pisses me off is that the HSA max contribution has not kept up with family OOP max. I contribute the max every year and can't end up with $8,500 saved. I had a decent insurance p…

Wow.

In Russia fully out-of-pocket (no insurance, no subsidy) CT scan will cost you $50-$200 (depending on body part).

So, this is likely around its prime cost. And the rest of your $(3000-200) is split and pocketed by hospital shareholders and insurance company.

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