Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard • Hacker News Board

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#421

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 11:34 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #386

anigbrowl wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dominionism, which is derived from Calvinism and which enjoys significant popularity in the US. There are some extremely militant and aggressive strains of Christianity out there. Just because you're not familiar with them doesn't mean they only have a few adherents.

I'm still not sure about the OP's assertion, but more than that I feel like if you're going to posit that religious doctrine is the reason you ought to be able to specify what doctrine you mean and not just make a handwaving gesture in the general direction of religion. And besides that, there is a history of the opposite impulse in American politics also coming from religion -- look at Catholic opposition to the dea…

I just gave you a clear answer. I'm sorry, I don't feel like writing a detailed explainer on it today.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#422

Post by vidarh » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 9:55 AM UTC

jorvi wrote: post #153

vidarh wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is any steps above slavery. In Norway, partly for this reason, prisoners have the legal right to choose education instead of work. If part of their punishment is meant to be financial restitution, then I believe that should be spelled out in the judgement, and they should be paid market wages for whatever work they do, and that should be garnished accordingly and kept out of the prison system entirel…

Hell, the European system (rehabilitative instead of punitive) works so well our prisons in The Netherlands are so empty Norway sends us some of their prisoners, presumably because you guys don't want to 'anticipate' by building more jails. We even used some jails as temporary refugee shelter (for those horrified: prisons in The Netherlands are a lot less stark than America).

It was somewhat amusing that one of the rented prisons is called Norgerhaven. Norge is the Norwegian name for Norway, and in old/conservative Norwegian, "have" is garden (in modern Norwegian it'd be "hage". In Norwegian it halfway sounds like someone who doesn't know Norwegian is trying to say "garden for Norwegians".

On a more serious note: The Norwegian prisoners in question actually have to volunteer, and the department of justice have made a "marketing" video to entice prisoners, which led to complaints from prisoners when it turned out they'd exaggerated a bit (some stuff was not ready when the first prisoners arrived).

Overall the attitude is very different to the US one.

> We even used some jails as temporary refugee shelter (for those horrified: prisons in The Netherlands are a lot less stark than America).

Same in Norway. Low security Norwegian prisons have fences no more than normal garden fences for example - they're there to show the prisoners how far they are allowed to go, not to physically stop them, as the type of prisoners sent to those places are more concerned about getting it over and done with than escaping. I think that is an essential element: To give people a chance wherever possible to show they can take responsibility.

More serious prisoners too can demonstrate they can be trusted and are serious about rehabilitation and get moved to prisoners without barriers that will actually hold them.

After all, if we can't trust them the day before their release, there's no reason why we should suddenly trust them the day after... I'm happy we let these prisoners gradually prove that they are likely to have reformed.

And the rehabilitation rates thankfully reflect that people respond to being treated humanely.

Maybe one day America gets over its mentality of vengeance.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#423

Post by emodendroket » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 1:23 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #421

emodendroket wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still not sure about the OP's assertion, but more than that I feel like if you're going to posit that religious doctrine is the reason you ought to be able to specify what doctrine you mean and not just make a handwaving gesture in the general direction of religion. And besides that, there is a history of the opposite impulse in American politics also coming from religion -- look at Catholic opposition to the dea…

I just gave you a clear answer. I'm sorry, I don't feel like writing a detailed explainer on it today.

You gave me some clarification, but I remain unconvinced that what you're proposing is a major influence over more prosaic ones.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#424

Post by Fjolsvith » Fri, Jun 09, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC

cubano wrote: post #225

pixl97 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on what 'added' means. The sentence you receive from a judge is probably not anywhere close to what you will actually sit in jail for. Probation, parole, double time, triple time, good behavior, trustee status, all affect the outcome. For example, you are sentenced to 3 years of jail for a non-violent drug offense. How long do you serve in jail? Very commonly 366 days, though it may be as much as a year…

> For example, you are sentenced to 3 years of jail for a non-violent drug offense. How long do you serve in jail? You don't get 3 years in jail, you get 3 years in prison. The only jail time you do waiting to be sentenced to prison is the time you wait to go to court. You get no gain time for time spent in jail for your prison sentence, so its often called dead time or day-for-day or something. >An ironic applicatio…

First of all, I've spent time in jails and in prisons, both state and federal. Calling it jail time or prison time is nitpicking from the inside.

Second, you do get credit for time served, whether you sat in a jail cell or a prison cell. If they don't credit you for time served, you can sue for illegal detention. It varies state-by-state as to whether you earn good-time (gain time) during your presentencing stay, but typically you get it if you didn't have any infractions.

Finally, prisons employ psychologists who actively gauge the population for "low morale" and suggest courses of action for the staff to take to keep the population under control with the least amount of effort/expense. Typically, they will improve the feed a little when the men become unruly. Also, the staff actively works with the gang structures to help keep the peace.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#425

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 2:15 PM UTC

ironarm wrote: post #330

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #14

Think about that for a second...$75K/yr for abhorrent, yet improving conditions and you'll come to the correct conclusion that contractors are absolutely fleecing not only the p̶r̶i̶s̶o̶n̶s̶ tax payers, but the prisoners themselves. Half a lifetime ago, I had to spend a weekend in jail while visiting a friend in California (accused of theft by a drunk lady who couldn't find her credit cards and fingered me instead of…

Just a heads up. The Bob Barker company is not run by the former Price is Right host. AFAIK he's never had anything to do with the company. Just the same name. Oddly, this company which has been in existence for 20+ years fleecing correctional facilities still doesn't have a wikipedia page, and little is known about them. Would somebody please fix this?

I just visited https://www.bobbarker.com/

This is a company that basically makes products of the lowest quality for the cheapest amount possible. An $800 3D printer I've used created higher quality items.

If you want a real laugh, check out the "Mission and values" section of their website. SPOILER: it has by far the least amount of content

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#426

Post by kwhitefoot » Sun, Jun 11, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

s-brody wrote: post #412

kwhitefoot wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hoping that you might explain why.

I was under the impression that this is a purely programming-related list.

I think you have been mis-informed. This site is for things of _interest_ to 'hackers' not merely for things related to them.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#427

Post by crpatino » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 4:45 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #407

crpatino wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cheapest kind of cheap is the one where you reap the benefits but make someone else pay the bill. And make that bill extra expensive, to add insult to injury.

Except it's the state paying for both prisoners and firefighting. So, it's more stealing money from your own left pocket.

Corruption 101 - As a government official, run an effective bu ineficcient operation, then position your friends and family to benefit indirectly from it: easy and secure jobs, contracts to provide supplies at overprice, real state appreciation, etc.