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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#421

Post by cyxxon »

reitanqild wrote: post #293
tiatia wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"would gladly pay $3000 for a washer" Miele. https://9to5mac.com/2011/03/07/how-steve-jobs-picks-a-washer...

Miele Seconded: the Miele that my family insisted on buying us for the wedding is well beyond 8 years and we haven't had a single problem. 10 years warranty but rumour have it they might easily last up 20 years although you might have to change parts somewhere between 10 and 20 years. Oh, and I think it cost something less than USD1000.

Disclaimer: I work for Miele, but in the IT department. It is not really a rumor per se, I'd say - the internal idea at Miele is that the stuff should last 15 to 20 years with normal use. So of course it can break after 8 years, everything can, but it shouldn't - that's why Miele sells service certificates (extended manufacturer warranty) for 10 years etc.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#422

Post by kalleboo »

nsxwolf wrote: post #243
NDizzle wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not better in every way. Mildew. Having to leave it open so that the seals air out. Gravity - undefeated champion. Replacement parts and repairs. Get ready to open up your wallet. Good luck working on anything yourself.

I hate our front loader. All our towels are moldy. I can never get the smell out. The machine emits a vile rotten egg smell during the spin cycle. I hate all our appliances. Every last one of them. From the microwave that lasted a year to the freezer that leaks water and ruined my hardwood floors. They're all garbage. Horrible, horrible expensive garbage.

I live in a very humid country and even top-loading washing machines suffer from mildew - here detergent is sold on anti-mildew properties and you can buy special washing machine cleaner liquids.

We had issues with mildew-smelling towels in our top-loader once during the rainy season (one month of non-stop rain and we hang-dry our clothes) but changing detergents solved that.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#423

Post by phillc73 »

tracker1 wrote: post #415
phillc73 wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I didn't make my point very clearly. Relying on a phone for in-car updates, such as traffic, is already an issue due to data roaming. Relying entirely on the phone will exacerbate this. I appreciate there are offline mapping solutions, which I noted. However, there are probably also other edge cases I haven't specifically considered.

How do you propose you get in-traffic updates without some sort of data feed? You can't turn it off in any apps? Also, does your in-built navigation have this feature?

I think we really are talking at cross purposes.

Yes, my in-built navigation system requires me to tether my phone to receive traffic updates. No tethering, no traffic updates or traffic camera alerts.

I don't have an alternative solution and understand a data connection is required for this functionality to work.

My point was that already I lose this service if I travel out of my own country and turn the data connection off to save money. If the car only had "a screen and a few buttons", relying on the phone for everything, much more functionality could become hamstrung without a data connection. I appreciate there are offline mapping solutions, but there are probably other service edge cases I haven't considered.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#424

Post by cel1ne »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #397
cel1ne wrote: post #376

I don't think this is so much about competition. I live in Vienna where most flats get heat and warm water from gas-powered combination boilers. There are a couple of companies who produce them. Mine is 25 years old. The guy who comes for maintenance once a year says it should have broken down 10 years ago and he is only doing little fixes, but not swapping out larger parts anymore because: "If I replace something bi…

You might find you are paying for that in energy costs, modern condensing boilers are much more efficient.

I thought about it too but compared it to friends with similar flats and my bill isn't off.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#425

Post by lowkeyokay »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #410
lowkeyokay wrote: post #398

I don't buy too much into the 'build to fail' argument. Rather, I think it's just a matter of consumers choosing features and price over longevity. You can't really prove longevity here and now. Of course you can build up a reputation but it takes time and might not pay off. Anecdote 1: Miele has a very good reputation. They also cost three times as much as the volume sellers and have a much lower market share. Sorry…

Blaming consumers for choosing price over longevity is like blaming water for flowing downhill. Both phenomena are perfectly predictable, so there's really no one with agency to blame there - just like a bunch of water molecules can't reverse the flow of a river, a bunch of consumers won't change this dynamic. Instead, one should focus on those who willingly profit off such phenomenas. Now, you could argue that with…

Fair enough. My point though is that there is the option to by a better washer but most people - including myself - choose the cheaper option.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#426

Post by kalleboo »

x0x0 wrote: post #335
M_Grey wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare the average Meanwhile my cheap apartment-scale fridge was made with chewing gum and hope.

That 25 year old refrigerator is almost certainly very expensive to operate. Look at the energy use over time: 1990 -> 2015 saw a halving of power usage (1000 kWh/y -> 500 kWh/y) -- over a ten year lifespan with CA electricity at $0.19/kWh, that's $950 in increased energy expenditure as compared to a new refrigerator. ie it would be close to free. http://aceee.org/blog/2014/09/how-your-refrigerator-has-kept... For re…

When I moved in with my wife, we replaced her 10-year old bachelor-sized fridge with a new one that was over 3x bigger and the new one had nearly the exact same power draw...

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#427

Post by tomlock »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #414
tomlock wrote: post #48

Isn't this largely driven by consumer demand? The prices of appliances has dropped dramatically in the last few decades. Building a long-lasting appliance often requires even marginally more expensive materials - many of which are highlighted in this article. If consumers are primarily price sensitive at the time of purchase, they may choose the $50 cheaper appliance even if it lasts 40 years less. What I mean to sug…

If consumers are price-sensitive, then companies locked in a race to the bottom will end up producing utter crap, that honestly shouldn't even exist in the civilized society. I don't think we can keep blaming consumers; the goal here is to ensure a minimum quality standard.

I don't really intend to blame consumers more than I want to blame a society where people are forced to make compromises to survive to the next paycheck!

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#428

Post by hvidgaard »

bnolsen wrote: post #197
mrbill wrote: post #174

When we moved into this house 12 years ago, I got the cheapest, simplest, most "mechanical" washer and dryer set that Lowe's offered (I think it's branded GE). Haven't had a single problem other than the light inside the dryer eventually burned out when a housemate left the door open. I know that when one of them eventually fails, it will hopefully be a cheap and simple mechanical fix. I have no desire to own a "majo…

A serious problem in the US was that regulation demanded clothes washer lids be locked when in operation. This led to forced electronics on clothes washers starting several years ago just to handle the automatic switch. I know Speed Queen was trying to delay this mess but I don't know if they are still manufacturing purely mechanical washers or not...

I don't know the nature of the regulation, but if all it demands is that the lid is locked while it is in operation, then I don't see the need for complex electronics at all. When the motor is spinning, lock. When the motor stops spinning, keep locked for 10 seconds. This can be done with cheap electronics known to work for 100.000 hours, more than enough hours for 30 years of service.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#429

Post by agumonkey »

mrbill wrote: post #174

When we moved into this house 12 years ago, I got the cheapest, simplest, most "mechanical" washer and dryer set that Lowe's offered (I think it's branded GE). Haven't had a single problem other than the light inside the dryer eventually burned out when a housemate left the door open. I know that when one of them eventually fails, it will hopefully be a cheap and simple mechanical fix. I have no desire to own a "majo…

Random note, seems to me that the *washers market has been a scam for a long time, the only difference between models seem superficial: interface aesthetics, a few programs and a new screen. Imagine if the rotor and fluid was decoupled and you could swap the controlling part ?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#430

Post by theiz »

WalterBright wrote: post #306
mrbill wrote: post #174

When we moved into this house 12 years ago, I got the cheapest, simplest, most "mechanical" washer and dryer set that Lowe's offered (I think it's branded GE). Haven't had a single problem other than the light inside the dryer eventually burned out when a housemate left the door open. I know that when one of them eventually fails, it will hopefully be a cheap and simple mechanical fix. I have no desire to own a "majo…

I've had many cars with electric windows. They all eventually failed, usually when it was raining, and the windows could not be raised. Fixing them would cost over $500. My truck now has hand cranked windows, and mechanical door locks. They're no trouble at all, and I'm happy with them.

I live in Europe, and my feelings About us cars is the same as the story about washing machines: somewhere in the '80 the quality got from superb to rubish. Where Honda cars of the nineties stil drive around, american cars dont. You see the old american cars of the sixties and seventies, but then you get a gap to only those almost new.
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