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On asking job candidates to code

philcalcado.com

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Re: On asking job candidates to code

#421

Post by MangezBien »

Interesting. I applied to DO about ten weeks ago. I had an initial phone screen, and they sent me a code challenge. I completed and turned in the challenge. Then I heard nothing for two weeks. I reached out to my contact there, and she got back to me a week later saying, "I've been waiting on feedback - sorry it's taking so long! I just pinged the manager again this morning." That was the last I heard from DO.

I feel like I wasted the half-day I spent on their code challenge. I don't expect a job, but a simple "Thanks but no thanks," would be nice.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#422

Post by blakeyrat »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #406
blakeyrat wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a professional software developer. I don't use GitHub, or StackOverflow. At all. I don't think that reflects on my skills.

Curious what you're doing that you never have to even reference GitHub or SO. That seems strange to me in 2016, unless e.g. You're only using some language / framework / libraries that your company made / paid libraries / .NET and all the documentation and ecosystem is private.

I've attempted to use StackOverflow, but by the time I have questions difficult enough to go there they're well above the level that SO is capable of answering. (At least, not without bribing people with rep, which I don't have because I don't use StackOverflow.) So it's pretty useless to me.

As for GitHub, I've downloaded libraries from it, but I have a pretty healthy dislike of Git, which is awful, and refuse to use it for any personal projects. (I only use it at work because I have to-- in any case, work repos are of course private.) I used to have a few projects publicly available on Google Code, but now that's shut down, so there's really just nothing. I do have private repos for my hobby work.

In case it matters, most of my development is in C#.NET.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#423

Post by mooreds »

SilasX wrote: post #307
mooreds wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like we need a glassdoor for folks who've just interviewed at companies.

... so, like regular GlassDoor.com. Not sure if you were joking: https://www.glassdoor.com/Interview/Airbnb-Interview-Questio...

Hah. Not joking, didn't know. Thanks for pointing this out.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#424

Post by dannyr »

ClayFerguson wrote: post #412

I think the reason so many companies resort to asking candidates to do a programming project for the interview is because they are lazy and don't want to take time to interview someone, or they suck at interviewing, or both. Bottom line, if you can't judge someone's ability by talking to them it's YOUR fault. You suck at interviewing. Last time I was looking for a job a company I was interested in gave me this massiv…

I'd take take-home over whiteboard interviews.

Even with whiteboard interviews, you still need to prepare for them. I would say I probably spend at least 8 hours preparing for them mainly because of its arbitrary nature. I have no idea what they will be asking.

With a take-home programming challenge, there is less uncertainty. By looking at the exercise, you can make a good estimate on how many hours it would take and see if it's worth doing.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#425

Post by steven777400 »

ClayFerguson wrote: post #413
neoCrimeLabs wrote: post #376

I just want to create a well documented simple resful API for applicants to use. If an applicant wants to apply for a job they have to write code in the language of their choice to apply using the API. Upon successful application, request their SSH public key and supply a git repository they can check their code into. A hook script will email me upon successful commit. A moderately experienced dev will not spend much…

And the GREAT devs like me will not waste their time on your antics and will look elsewhere for a job at a company that is less of a hassle to deal with.

Great devs never apply for any job using the traditional job application (except maybe as an after-the-fact HR formality); they are always recommended and hand picked by their network.

As a intermediate (after so many years, should I just replace that with 'mediocre') dev I think a test like this would be a fantastic way both for a company to judge me and for me to judge what a company would expect from me.

There's a huge variety in dev roles ranging from challenging to code monkey and it's sometimes hard to figure out from a job posting or even conventional conversational interview where along the spectrum the expectations are, but establishing those expectations on both sides is critical.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#426

Post by eli »

danbolt wrote: post #95
eli wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true! I find it disappointing that many candidates appear to put little effort in their cover letter. It's a chance to show me you can communicate well, which is maybe the single most important skill in working on a team.

I feel like cover letters are an easy way to show that you've thought about the company you're applying for, but in my experience I've never got the impression that my cover letter was actually read in the application process. I could be plenty wrong though, and I'd love to hear from HR/recruiters about their experiences with cover letters.

I dunno. I'm sure some places don't read them at all. But I read (or at least skim) every cover letter that comes across my desk before looking at the resume.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#427

Post by RangerScience »

TuringNYC wrote: post #387
hnrodey wrote: post #41

I'm going through the interview process this week at two different companies. One of the companies I found through an ad on Stack Overflow whereby they publish two programming "exercises/puzzles" with the opportunity to earn $100 for a correct answer to each puzzle ($200 total for two correct answers). While I spent more than eight hours on both puzzles, I found them to be thought provoking and I learned stuff in the…

There is a selection bias here as others have noted, the exam is likely biased in favor of younger, unmarried workers, especially those without children who have 2-8+ hours to spend on top of their other commitments. I applaud their decision to pay for correct answers, as it balances the "cost" bourne by the applicant and employer. Employers who send out tests en masse have an asymmetric advantage -- they can force m…

To be fair, younger workers will usually have less of a professional network; older workers will usually have more of a network, and are more likely to have open source code that's reviewable.

It's all just ways to filter. If I can filter you through our mutual network, I'll do that - if I can't, open source code; if I can't, coding test.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#428

Post by huehehue »

spike021 wrote: post #245
dominotw wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had nightmare of a interview experience with AirBnb in 2012. They asked me take 2 days off from work and fly all the way to SFO after I wasted couple of hours doing their coding homework. The first interviewer started with "your degree is not from a good school" like the very first sentence right to my face. He then asked me a string matching question, and insisted that I code up his brute force solution (with terr…

Nowadays, at least for their engineering internships, they have a pre-filled list of top schools to choose from followed by an "other" option (at least when I tried applying a couple years ago). That told me exactly what I needed to know. I'd be instantly rejected because of not going to a "good school".

I'd love to say "don't worry, you'll get a chance to prove yourself", but I can verify the instant rejection.

Sample size of one, but I dropped out of a top public school, immediately started working full-time x 1.5, and ended up with a resume that my now-graduating colleagues are blown away by. A few top companies (Google and Yelp! included) have flat out refused to screen me based on no other conversation than "Oh, I never finished school because _____". Hell, I interned for a large bank and received a great job offer which was promptly rescinded after the right manager found out what everybody else already knew.

It's one thing if I fail the interview process. I get that. I know I have a lot to learn. But the way some of these companies act is just messed up. FWIW, none of my independent clients care.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#429

Post by kozukumi »

golergka wrote: post #382
kozukumi wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A couple of months ago I did a 'homework' assignment for an interview (it involved writing a simple REST service in go, even though I have at least one personal project demonstrating exactly this skill -- to an even greater degree -- in my github profile). I would have asked them to look at that code and ask me any question they have about it. If they are not willing to do that I wouldn't have bothered continuing t…

27 years old lead, reporting in. Just curious if you would tell me I'm no lead material. Now, on one hand, I dropped out and been in the industry (gamedev) for the last ten years. On the other hand, I've actually been on designer and producer positions for the first 6. But then again, on the third hand, I was programming non-stop since 8 and turned in MIX emulator (from Knuth's books) as a school project at 15. So, m…

Of course we can agree on that. However I hope you will also agree with me in that the term "lead" for many things gets thrown around quite easily in the tech world.

What annoys me is I often see companies promote an inexperienced (due to age) developer to lead or architect or some other title when they are really not that at all. The company does it to keep the person happy [read: shut them up] with a title rather than pull out the company wallet and pay more. I know dozens, maybe even in the hundred+, people who were duped into that. Often because "it will look amazing on your CV!" or "we promise we will review your pay if things work out in 6 months" in the hope you forget about it or don't want to bring it up.

The problem I have with this is that it devalues the actual lead, architects, whatever the current trendy title is.

I look at it this way - A lead developer could be lead on a very important bit of software that somehow fits into something that could cause loss of life. If it were a structural engineer they wouldn't just be promoted to a lead architect after a couple of years in the game. Same with a surgeon or registrar or a judge or detective or ... the list is very long! Except in IT for some reason.

I do not mean to belittle anyone who is a lead developer and under 30. Good for you if you really are skilled and experienced enough to truly deserve that title, my problem is over the years I would say a good 90% of those "lead" somethings under 30 are not deserving of the title.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#430

Post by [deleted] »

wrong_variable wrote: post #377
seanp2k2 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side of this is that not everyone has the luxury of that much free time to focus on puzzle-type exercises just to get a foot in the door. This process seems to select for single people with a good amount of free time, which, depending on who you ask, is possibly what they want (if e.g. frequently greater than 40hr work weeks are expected). Edit: thinking more about this, it's good to see that it's a paid puz…

I understand your concern but you are actually talking from a privileged position. Its not really that hard to take a bit of time out of your evening or weekend to do some online programming exercise - IF that is the only thing that companies want. Anecdotally speaking I had to do these types of things while working full time to pay the bills. Having a broader perspective - its maybe only in programming that the hiri…

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