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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

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Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#421

Post by FireBeyond »

viscanti wrote: post #324
Afforess wrote: post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

Of course the city should do more to help the issue. Turning a blind eye to tents on the street (which are illegal) isn't doing enough. It just makes the issues of a poor mental health system even more obvious. The article is interesting as it's attempting to vilify "rich tech bros". Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems weird to point out that he took his parents to a restaurant that serves Lobster (no word on i…

It's because if you read the article, or his letter, there's very little about "what can be done to help fix or solve this issue" or help these people, and their plight...

and very much about how someone who can afford the nice things in life, a luxurious / extravagant lifestyle by many standards, 'shouldn't have to be subjected to the unpleasantness thereof' and how uncomfortable / annoying it is -for him-.

He's not trying to solve the problem for them, he's trying to solve it for himself. He even says as much, talking about how easy it is to 'sweep the problem away' for Super Bowl. No-one thinks that SF temporarily solved the homeless issue for SB weekend, and he doesn't want it solved either (or makes no real mention of that in this letter), he just wants it swept.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#422

Post by dang »

yuudu_literal wrote: post #314
_b8r0 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. As someone who's been homeless twice, I appreciate that you don't intend to offend, but this is a very loaded and offensive statement. You appear to work with homeless people and have very little sympathy for their situation, which I can understand but it still makes me a little sad. Becoming homeless is somethi…

These kind of responses have a chilling effect on debate and progress. > this is a very loaded and offensive statement So the fuck what? If you aren't allowed to consider anything offensive, we'd never discuss the difficult issues and make progress on them. > something that can happen to anyone for any number of reasons, and there are different kinds of being homeless Yeah blah blah blah he's not saying 'absolutely e…

Please don't create throwaway accounts on HN for the purpose of breaking the rules. There's no point here that you couldn't have made civilly.

You reacted as if iuguy had tried to "shut down" discussion with an ideological dictum, but that's not at all what he did. Both iuguy and monkmartinez have commented out of deep personal experience. We're incredibly fortunate to have commenters posting from that level, most of all in so rage-baity a thread.

Showing up with a bullhorn and blaring angry arguments is the last thing you should be doing on HN to begin with, but to insert that at the most meaningful point of human communication in this thread is really an abuse.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#423

Post by civilian »

marknutter wrote: post #240

This fucking sucks. I know Justin personally, and to see the vitriol being spewed forth at him makes my stomach churn. His blog post was clearly written out of frustration, and lacked nuance, but in no way does it justify the response it has received. None of these scathing articles or drive-by tweets are asking for clarification. Instead, his character is being assassinated as an extension of the growing fervor arou…

I'm with you, the witchhunts need to end. Even if the bluetribe is correct in their beliefs, the mob action is not persuasive. I have less respect than ever for liberals because of this disrespectful way of handling public discourse.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#424

Post by carapace »

forgottenpass wrote: post #81
randomname2 wrote: post #30

What is a "SF tech bro"? In this context it seems to be intended as some kind of slur, or there is at least some negative connotation here. It's a man who works in tech who... what exactly?

What is a "SF tech bro"? It's a scapegoat boogieman. A tool of techies in SF to manage their cognitive dissonance. There are things everyone else in the city hates the startup/tech scene at large for. There are also people progressives hate for their not-progressive-enough views, and some of them have the gall to work in tech. When either of those (or any other number of criticisms) are stereotypically "bro" (or clos…

Co-worker of mine, actual quote: "Yeah, I know there's a pay disparity, and women are paid less than men. But really, socially, they have all the power."

THAT, my friend is a "tech bro" and he's in SF.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#425

Post by [deleted] »

yuudu_literal wrote: post #314
_b8r0 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. As someone who's been homeless twice, I appreciate that you don't intend to offend, but this is a very loaded and offensive statement. You appear to work with homeless people and have very little sympathy for their situation, which I can understand but it still makes me a little sad. Becoming homeless is somethi…

These kind of responses have a chilling effect on debate and progress. > this is a very loaded and offensive statement So the fuck what? If you aren't allowed to consider anything offensive, we'd never discuss the difficult issues and make progress on them. > something that can happen to anyone for any number of reasons, and there are different kinds of being homeless Yeah blah blah blah he's not saying 'absolutely e…

[deleted]

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#426

Post by qrendel »

vkou wrote: post #369
qrendel wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to that hypocrisy, there's also the outrage when jobs go to the most impoverished in other countries, rather than be given to comparatively wealthy westerners at the expense of both the companies and foreign communities. If you're single w/ no dependents and making $54k or more a year, you are already in the top 1% of the global population by income.[1] Makes a lot of the anti-1% stuff come off as extremely hy…

If you completely ignore purchasing power, you can make up any statistics about income you want. ~50% of the world's population has a negative, or a zero net worth - I guess the homeless person with two dollars in his pocket is better off then a janitor who owns an underwater house, or a freshly graduated doctor.

Across all goods, purchasing power is still lower for the median worker in an impoverished country compared to the median western worker. Look at the price of all goods you can afford (healthcare, electronics, etc), not just a few specific items like food and rent. Many of those may not even be available in the poorer country at any realistic price.

That aside, an equivalent USD wage will still provide for more people in a poor country than in a rich one.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#427

Post by mindslight »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #189

For all the shelters, clinics, and every other initiative to help homeless people "get back on their feet," we shouldn't forget two simple facts: 1: San Francisco is a great city and the winters won't kill you, so it's an attractive destination for everyone, especially the homeless. 2: Some people prefer to be homeless. No amount of detox or "good drugs" will ever change them. I have a radical idea: pay homeless peop…

You might be on to something here, in that the incentives are completely changed. Rather than cooperatively funding programs, adversarially fund programs - create competition for who can serve the homeless the best, elsewhere.

The "enforcement" aspect isn't even really necessary - just give out this income often enough and far enough away from the city that traveling back and forth every time is impractical.

I'm imagining SF opening a sizable homeless shelter in LA, busing people down there, and then giving them some sort of BI there. (Yes, such busing has gotten a bad wrap, but bear with the thought experiment). Meanwhile, LA can do the same thing to get rid of their homeless. Each city would be incentivized to spend more, efficiently, on maintaining shelters in each other's cities.

There's a gradient where infrastructure-poor towns in the middle of nowhere would be cheaper. And who would want to move to a majority homeless city to own/work business to serve them? But could this be softened with the return trip being guaranteed, contractually obligated with independent oversight?

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#428

Post by carapace »

civilian wrote: post #414
samstave wrote: post #404

I'm 41, was born in SF and have been living back in the bay area since 97. In all my years in living in SF, or the bay area at large, I have never once had an altercation or otherwise problem with a homeless person. In fact, I give them stern talkings to occasionally; Two days ago there was a homeless person on Market whos pants were falling down - I told him very sternly "Pull your pants up" and he did so. There was…

I'm 29, where do you learn this kind of leadership?

Emperor Norton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton

(In case it's not clear, I'm being serious(-ish.))

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#429

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

MrMullen wrote: post #363
ktRolster wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A homeless person walked up and punched me in the face. Did he steal your phone, or just didn't like you?

> Did he steal your phone, or just didn't like you? Does it matter?

Intentions matter.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#430

Post by chris_wot »

daenz wrote: post #381
allworknoplay wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, he didn't say "we should ensure that we offer social programs and housing supply to address the needs of the poor, mentally ill, addicted, or otherwise disadvantaged", he said (literally) "I shouldn't have to see the pain". He clearly doesn't care that people who are being priced out of the city they've lived in longer than he has are helped, just that they're gone. What a disgusting attitude.

You can cherry-pick from his letter, but it's obvious that his first concern is about safety: > Worst of all, it is unsafe. > The residents of this amazing city no longer feel safe. > I shouldn’t have to worry about being accosted.

Nice cherry-picking.
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