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Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

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421–430 of 629 posts

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#421
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the exact same thing here in Vancouver, there are even protests because someone is going to tear down a small house that fits one family and build a bigger house on the same property that fits multiple families. We have a low interest rate fuelled asset bubble and 1%'ers are complaining that they can't afford detached housing in Vancouver, never realizing that if everyone in Vancouver live in detached housing we'…

Its the exact same thing here in Vancouver, there are even protests because someone is going to tear down a small house that fits one family and build a bigger house on the same property that fits multiple families. This is new - has the owner said that multiple families will live in that house? It's stupid to expect to be able to live in detached housing in a world class city Since when did Vancouver become a world…

To be fair I agree with you on most of those points, however, Vancouver seems to think it's world class when really its quite provincial.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#422
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's one of the causes, the other is the excessive money supply: https://positivemoney.org/issues/house-prices/ The issue described is not unique to Vancouver, it's a worldwide phenomenon, lots of desirable locations across the globe are facing the same (from Auckland to London to Sydney to Zurich), even in my hometown in Montevideo, Uruguay, houses are going for ridiculous prices. A good measure on whether…

>As someone who doesn't own any property, I really hope the housing bubble explodes. Where were you 5-7 years ago?

Starting an expensive tech MBA instead of putting the money for a down payment on a house... bad move.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#423
post #372
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bay Area has been really bad about building, but some of the huge explosions in housing, for example the big towers going up in Redwood City, might finally help alleviate a bit of pressure.

Of course, that won't help the folks who don't want to own a car and do want to live in SF and be part of the urban scene but there are probably a lot more opportunities for adding housing south of SF--where most of the tech employment is anyway.

Well, it won't help folks who want to live in SF, of course, but it's right on the Caltrain line. I would definitely say you could get by in downtown RWC and commute to SF if you desire without a car.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#424
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as someone who's considering Australia and NZ as potential destinations, both language and visa situations are big hurdles to clear for moving to Berlin. Maybe you have an European or U.S. citizenship, but they're harder towards South Americans. Also, software development salaries weren't something to write home about last time I checked (that was some a long time ago admittedly). Edit: According to Glassdoor,…

$80k AUD is €50k, sounds pretty close to me.

So, not worth jumping through all the extra inmigration hoops compared to Australia or New Zealand, not to mention the language barrier.

My grandfather was German-born and they didn't grant the citizeship to him, and I remember the ridiculous requirements he faced trying to get it (and he was more German than most actual Germans, a Fischer Reuter Spangemberg and more German surnames all the way down)

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/skilled-immigran...

"The paperwork is nightmarishly complex and requires a wealth of information, with endless pages and extra documents. Sometimes translations are required, sometimes not. In fact, she no longer sends the papers off without consulting an expert. Anders works as the human resources manager for Adidas. She is looking for skilled workers in Europe, the Middle East and Africa. These days, even a company like Adidas rarely finds new employees in Germany, especially IT experts and designers."

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an established middle-aged software developer with a family living in Burnaby who cannot move now because of custody issues, I'm going to give you the same advice I give to all of the engineering co-ops I work with. You should move out of the Vancouver area as soon as you get your degree. I don't think that you're ever going to have a problem finding 1 bedroom accommodations in Vancouver because that's what develo…

Despite your persuasive argument, I like it here. The US is broken, politically and socioeconomically. The Senate will block any bills for a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics, and a Constitutional Convention will mean all amendments will be on the line, including the 1st Amendment (libertarians will cry "freeze speech") and 2A (gun owners will cry "the gubmint is taking our guns away"). I really d…

I'm young and I don't want kids. I do not believe that yellow peril is the driving factor in housing costs. Certainly it's a factor, but no one can say how much of a factor it is without solid data. I'm staying, and you can't stop me!

:-)

Fair enough; its a nice city if you're young and you don't have kids. I think a lot of your criticism of other places has to do with things that don't affect you on a day to day basis; America's lax gun laws aren't going to have nearly the same impact on your life as the much better software dev work you'll find there, the higher pay your work will garner, and better housing opportunities you'd have in the US.

I just hope you don't wind up like me; 20 years of C/C++ dev experience in desktop and embedded, and I have no idea what I would do if my current company here in Vancouver went under. There just aren't a lot of job opportunities here, and moving would mean giving up custody of my kids.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#426
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's virtually no religion or guns in Seattle. And I'm not sure what race you're talking about, but I can only guess Asian (since Canadian isn't a race!) and even growing up in the 80s half my friends were Asian. We're not talking about Oklahoma here.

>>> but I can only guess Asian (since Canadian isn't a race!) That's a perfect example. You've assumed that I meant "race" as meaning there where different races in either country. I mean to speak about the concept of race generally. American's are obsessed with race. It is part of nearly every discussion and aspect of life. In Canada it isn't such a big deal. You don't hear Canadian politicians ever speak of wining…

throws up hands Well, you're the one who brought up race, so I'm not sure what you expected.

I think the problem is that you experience US culture via the media, and you experience Canadian culture in real life AND via the media. I don't feel that everything is about race in the US, but obviously it's a pretty damn big deal in the media right now because of globally-known events that have happened really recently. Would you have said the same even 5 years ago?

In a bar in France one time, a group of drunk Canadian women started chatting me up, and the more drunk of the group kept going on and on about how terribly obsessed with celebrities all of us Americans were. She went on and on for 20 minutes about how it's all we care about and all we talk about. Leaving aside the irony of the situation, she refused to listen when I said I simply don't care, it's not a part of my life, and it's not a part of the lives of anyone I know.

But that's what you get when your biggest impression of a place is from its media. That's not to say that it doesn't reflect something real, just that it's not the whole picture.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#427
post #279
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's virtually no religion or guns in Seattle. And I'm not sure what race you're talking about, but I can only guess Asian (since Canadian isn't a race!) and even growing up in the 80s half my friends were Asian. We're not talking about Oklahoma here.

There's a bit more religion. I haven't been able to walk through Seattle downtown without some angry person with a sign and a megaphone threatening infidels with hellfire, unless they repent, and accept the Lord as their saviour. Other then that, it's not too bad.

Yeah, I walked through Super Bowl city in SF last week and found these megaphone people. You forget they exist until a big event comes up, then they come out of the woodwork.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#428
post #82

It seems like many major cities of the world are experiencing this problem, and no city has been able to come up with a good solution. It always leads to displacement and newspaper articles about displacement, but no real solutions. Here are a couple of solutions: 1. Build really tall. Hasn't worked out all that great in Hong Kong, though. 2. Rent control. This is often unfair and inflates price of non-rent controlle…

I think it's a symptom of something else: the hyper-centralization of relevance and cultural center of gravity in only a few places.

When I was younger (1990s), I don't remember it mattering so much where you were located. I've spoken to older people and they concur: they've all said that when they were young being in, say, Indianapolis or Toledo was not a big deal.

Today, at least in the USA, there's a strong sense that you're nobody unless you are in one of about eight big coastal cities. Nothing happens anywhere else.

I'm talking about perception here. You can argue that this isn't really true, and that you can do anything most anywhere, but the cultural perception is that you're nobody and can't do anything unless you are in NYC, SF, LA, etc.

I'm a startup founder and have been told by several people on several occasions that we are doomed because we are not in the Bay Area. I'm in SoCal but apparently if we're not in SF or its Southern suburbs it's impossible to succeed as a tech company. Obviously I don't believe this, but the meme is strong. If enough people take this stuff seriously, it's going to contribute to a hell of a property bubble in SF/SV.

I still don't understand why this is the case, especially since the Internet was supposed to have the opposite effect. By making information globally available and communication easy, the Internet was supposed to flatten the world and make place less relevant. Instead I've noticed a strong and obvious trend in the opposite direction since circa 2000.

I can only comment on the USA, but what I see elsewhere seems to support this being a global thing. London has gone totally insane for example. I wonder if the Internet is actually having a paradoxical centralizing effect here, allowing larger cities to broadcast their cultural "signal" and then have that signal amplified enough by network effects to make them appear exponentially more and more influential. This in turn drives a feedback loop in which talent and ambition is drawn increasingly to these cities, etc., and the rest of the country is hollowed out.

It's actually part of an even larger trend. Since 2000 everything seems to have gone increasingly power law: wealth distribution, geographic relevance, education, etc.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an established middle-aged software developer with a family living in Burnaby who cannot move now because of custody issues, I'm going to give you the same advice I give to all of the engineering co-ops I work with. You should move out of the Vancouver area as soon as you get your degree. I don't think that you're ever going to have a problem finding 1 bedroom accommodations in Vancouver because that's what develo…

Why does / did the Canadian government let so many Chinese come in and buy property like that?

I'm not sure that the problem has ever been how many Chinese have immigrated, but how many rich people who happen to be Chinese have immigrated. For starters, we have an entirely misguided and wrong-headed 'immigrant investor program' that allows rich people to jump the immigration queue.

I think the problem is deeper than this, though. Most people in Vancouver actually want prices to stay high; there are a whole lot of home owners in Vancouver who are counting on that $3M cheque for their house to pay for their retirement. Its the provincial government that wields the legislative cudgel here, and they're going to listen to those home-owners waiting for their Chinese-exit. Worse, much of the BC economy is now based on real-estate; selling it, buying it, rebuilding it, and renovating it. We've built our economy on selling rich Chinese people our homes. If the provincial government intervenes and fixes house prices, it would probably harm the construction and real estate business; it would be political suicide.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#430

Melbourne's just as horrible. So's Sydney. So are a lot of places.

So what's happening with this general trend? Does it mean some smaller cities have stagnating prices and people are leaving? Or does that mean the money we've given to China for 30 years is finally buying out the world? Or does that mean that everyone is afraid of a bubble and invests since 7 years in land?
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