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The Unemployable Programmer

unemployable.pen.io

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Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#411

Post by monk_e_boy »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #254
monk_e_boy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chose to write a hugely boring open source product that no one in their right mind would bother with. Old tech, competing with a ton of other similar projects. I focused on the documentation, make it as simple as 'cut and paste this code to get it working' every time someone had a question, bam - a cut and paste example. Did some serious SEO and soon was racking up a couple of thousand hits a week. This soon hits t…

If you're getting millions of hits per week, you might want to consider doing something to monetize the open source project...

No, sorry, not millions a week. It was a thousand or so a week. What I meant, is that those thousands add up to a more impressive number. The numbers have dropped off over the years.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#412

Post by Terr_ »

tracker1 wrote: post #405
aianus wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like you push anything important your first day. You spend two hours doing some simple bug fix that would usually take you 15 min and then spend the next six hours learning how the CI and deployment pipeline works, usually with someone holding your hand.

CI and deployment pipeline?!? What are you a spoiled millenials thinking... we build local, and copy the whole folder over RDP copy/paste onto the production server. You may laugh, but I've seen that far more often than an actual CI/CD process in place...

Don't forget the only documentation is a printout someone remembered they had in a drawer.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#413

Post by milspec »

jcadam wrote: post #69

Hmm... I'm a 35 year old programmer and I work in Defense/Aerospace. If you think finding a good developer is hard, try finding a good developer who also holds a security clearance. If you're any good at all, you will always be employed and well compensated. The work can be dull, with Vogon-esque processes and procedures, but I have side projects to keep me sane :) Every couple of years (ok, at least every year) I'll…

We have a rockstar programmer.

No, really. He put out CDs and all. Technically he's a former rockstar I guess, but close enough. He rocks.

We still lack a ninja. We have been unable to find one who could do low-level programming and get a US (not Japanese!) security clearance. So far we've had to settle for Nerf dart skills, which really isn't up to ninja standards.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#414

Post by dba7dba »

nordic_nomad wrote: post #321
FLUX-YOU wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Did one of those code bootcamps to learn back end C# .Net MVC work in 6 months and got my first developer job at $40k, got the next one at $60k 6 months later, $75k 6 months after that, and $100k 6 months after that. That's a ridiculously good trajectory actually. Did you go to each next job based on what you built previously (plus the business experience), or were you also doing your own stuff in parallel to work?

So the first 2 years I was significantly underpaid with the digital agency we started really, where I was the only person doing front end and everyone else being a data scientist or strictly back-end person. Front-end work was really undervalued as we priced our work, but the only thing that was less valued were my MBA and business operations skills, so I kept doing that until student loans kicked in. I did a lot of…

it wasn't until I built my portfolio and assembled what I could that was all over the place and used it as my initial resume that I realized people would hire me as like an actual employee web developer.

I second this experience. In fact having an easily accessible portfolio (aka website) was what got me interviews and current job.

I was let go from help desk position about 3-4 years ago. I admit I was over paid help desk tech. I tried to use that time to restart my career (study) as a linux admin/tech. Despite my years in IT working as IT tech and Windows admin, I didn't get much response. What really helped get my current job was putting up a blog with tutorials explaining how to do certain tasks on Linux/webdev. I have a few dozen articles and each blog post is 2000+ words. Each took many hours to complete, some days. It goes from learning something, start writing, editing, going through the steps again to ensure it works.

For anyone who's having a hard time getting a job in tech industry, your goal should be putting up online an example of what you can do that others can view easily. Our industry is blessed with workers having this option. In most other career fields, this is not possible.

I would encourage the original poster of pen.io to put up his work as part of his resume. I feel his pain as I'm also not in the early 20's age bracket but don't give up.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#415

Post by aianus »

Terr_ wrote: post #412
tracker1 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CI and deployment pipeline?!? What are you a spoiled millenials thinking... we build local, and copy the whole folder over RDP copy/paste onto the production server. You may laugh, but I've seen that far more often than an actual CI/CD process in place...

Don't forget the only documentation is a printout someone remembered they had in a drawer.

^ Maybe we've uncovered what companies are trying to signal when they say you can push to prod your first day :)

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#416

Post by pmorici »

JamesBarney wrote: post #209
jcadam wrote: post #69

Hmm... I'm a 35 year old programmer and I work in Defense/Aerospace. If you think finding a good developer is hard, try finding a good developer who also holds a security clearance. If you're any good at all, you will always be employed and well compensated. The work can be dull, with Vogon-esque processes and procedures, but I have side projects to keep me sane :) Every couple of years (ok, at least every year) I'll…

I was under the impression pay for devs in the defense sector topped out at the 80-120k mark. Which is definitely good but very comparable to unimpressive mid-senior level devs at many development shops. If you wouldn't mind, in your experience what is the general range of pay for development work in the defense sector?

I think you are mistaken. I have friends in that industry and my impression is they wouldn't even bother with the interview unless the salary was at least $150k and closer to $200k is not uncommon in a locality that Wolfram Alpha says has a 30% cheaper cost of living than SF.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#417

Post by eropple »

milspec wrote: post #397
eropple wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can corroborate this, though more from the LinkedIn side of things. Out of every twenty LinkedIn messages I get, probably six are SF, four are Boston (I'm local), two each are NYC and DC, and two or three are between DFW and Austin. (The last couple are usually Idaho or Nebraska or one of the other corporate-fief states.)

Depending on the town and your specialty, you might be surprised. Not every place outside of the typical hot spots is corporate-fief. Specialization means you can have a good job market without the crowds causing traffic jams and running up the cost of living. For example, you might not expect much good in Melbourne, FL. You'd be wrong if you happen to like low-level code (assembly, reverse engineering, vulnerability…

I said what I get, not what does or doesn't exist. =)

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#418

Post by insamniac »

JamesBarney wrote: post #209
jcadam wrote: post #69

Hmm... I'm a 35 year old programmer and I work in Defense/Aerospace. If you think finding a good developer is hard, try finding a good developer who also holds a security clearance. If you're any good at all, you will always be employed and well compensated. The work can be dull, with Vogon-esque processes and procedures, but I have side projects to keep me sane :) Every couple of years (ok, at least every year) I'll…

I was under the impression pay for devs in the defense sector topped out at the 80-120k mark. Which is definitely good but very comparable to unimpressive mid-senior level devs at many development shops. If you wouldn't mind, in your experience what is the general range of pay for development work in the defense sector?

In my previous job, on an Army project that required a TS clearance, I was making the San Francisco equivalent of $202k according to Wolfram Alpha, as a W2 employee, This was with ~10 years experience.

The catch is that the work is terrible, and your coworkers will likely be pretty unqualified.

Some friends and I refer to a clearance as 'Golden Handcuffs' because the money is good, but you end up trapped since you're still writing code for Java 5 or 6, deploying in weblogic or jboss 4.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#419

Post by sargun »

wiz21 wrote: post #293
vonmoltke wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an absolutely baffling article. The job market for developers is not glutted by over-supply, it's one where marginally-qualified people get hired for salaries well above the national average because companies need SOMEONE to do the job. And virtually nowhere cares about degrees, especially for experienced devs. What is baffling is this Valley-centric, web and mobile development-centric line being repeated c…

Agreed. We're pickier. I work on application that ditributes about 1E9 euros a year (so it's smaller than a bank but that's not exactly a small application either). We're maintenance-mode now. When I hire, I need : some who : - can actually code (many of the applicants can write code, but they don't know important things like : how does a hashtable work, recursivity, etc) - can write reliable code (i.e. ability to te…

Why do you need to know how a HashTable works?

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#420

Post by greenyoda »

sargun wrote: post #419
wiz21 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. We're pickier. I work on application that ditributes about 1E9 euros a year (so it's smaller than a bank but that's not exactly a small application either). We're maintenance-mode now. When I hire, I need : some who : - can actually code (many of the applicants can write code, but they don't know important things like : how does a hashtable work, recursivity, etc) - can write reliable code (i.e. ability to te…

Why do you need to know how a HashTable works?

So you could predict its performance and know when it's not the best data structure to use?
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