Earlier quoted context omitted.
As we're learning here in the US, there's a big difference and gap between "the people" and the government.
But there isn't! You might all feel that your government is misrepresenting you, but until serious action is taken, nothing is going to change. What that serious action is, I have no idea. Other countries have dealt with oppressive regimes before, some better than others.
NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide
411–420 of 614 posts
Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide
#412Funny thing is how many articles have been written about Chinese crackers, possibly funded by the Chinese government, trying to hack into big companies.
Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am at a loss for words. Arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ignorant, mendacious...nothing cuts it. It is illegal in the US but who cares about the rest of the world? I can not remember when something similar made me that angry as the current conduct of the US does. If I would not know better that this would negatively affect the whole world and innocent US citizens and that emotional reactions are usually not…
> It is illegal in the US but who cares about the rest of the world? I think it's entirely justifiable to give the NSA more latitude abroad than domestically. To turn reverse the scenario, as an American, I would far rather have the French or the Germans conducting surveillance on the United States than the US government. People keep comparisons to the Stasi, too often they forget what the Stasi's purpose was: to sup…
Omniscience without omnipotence is tolerable, as is omnipotence without omniscience. The real trouble happens when you've got both.
Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
The purpose of intelligence agencies is to spy on non-citizens, both in peacetime and in wartime. One might argue that traditionally they focused on public figures in the foreign states and that spying on average foreigners is new; I don't know if that's true, but seems plausible. It would generally be a dereliction of duty for the NSA/CIA to not spy on non-Americans. The same holds true, modulo agency name and count…
Come on, say it to my face! You don't believe non-US people have a right to privacy. That's me! Your agencies can do whatever they want to me, but not to you. You're on the public Internet, you're not "within national borders", and everybody can hear what you just said. Say it to my face. Tell me how you feel that it's just fine to violate my privacy, that it's apparently perfectly fine to pry into my life, hack my p…
Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, it would help if you would write in a way that is not insulting and condescending. There's no "if" about it. All security is based on threat model, the lock on your front door is based on the threat of the average criminal, and not Watergate burglars. Are you guilty of bad security? Is it your fault if your front door lock gets picked because you made assumptions about the sophistication of your attacker? You o…
How about not musing out loud that people who are criticizing companies just "want to hate on these companies", if you're entertaining the idea of not being insulting and condescending. Google is a company that's been leading the way to get everyone on the cloud. It turns out what it's also been doing is making mass surveillance massively easy due to poor security practices. One individual having bad locks is not ana…
>no more anything where I end up putting my personal data or my clients' data anywhere but on my dedicated servers
The probability that your servers would be compromised by actual damaging threats (hackers, malware, viruses, botnets) is far higher than that of Google, so I hope if your servers get hacked, you will similarly berate yourself and not make excuses that you should have done better and spent 10x more security than you are now. How many actual penetrations have occured of Google infrastructure where thieves (not government) made off with actual information that they'd put to damaging use, vs that of other smaller hosts? Everything you do has tradeoffs.
You keep making hand wave arguments about what Google could have or should have done, again, totally points about the threat models and historical context. When this program started, by some accounts in 2007, the vast majority of Web traffic wasn't even secured by HTTPS, no one was using channel-ID or forward security, and the majority of SMTP traffic was not protected by TLS. In fact, even today, only 50% of email traffic is TLS protected. In 2007, fewer Google services were probably multi-datacenter replicated as well. Encrypting the dark fiber would have been useless back then when the front door was left unlocked.
So, let's try to imagine a hypothetical conversation of some security engineers when new data centers got set up for replication:
Engineer #1: Dude, we should encrypt traffic on our inter-DC traffic. Engineer #2: It's a buried dark fiber. Engineer #1: Yeah, but the NSA could dig it up and tap it. Engineer #2: That's illegal, and besides, it's a theoretical threat. We have a bigger practical threat, right now, anyone could just tap all front-end traffic, because most incoming user traffic is not HTTPS.
Engineer #1: You're right, let's get everyone on HTTPS first. Let's upgrade browsers, and Chrome, with better cipher suites. Let's add Channel-ID. Let's try to get SMTP users to use TLS.
The point isn't about excuses, it's about understanding at each point in time, what the weakest link in the chain is. The NSA taps of your email traffic might be worrisome, but the reality is, the Russians slurping up your credit cards, passwords, and doing MITM's to install botnets have far greater, actual practical damaging effects on you and your customers.
In an ideal world, everything would be secured against all possible attacks from day one, but internet infrastructure is rarely ideal. I started on the internet in the 80s in an era with zero encryption and where many services didn't even have passwords. We have gradually made things more and more secure, but getting there is going to take time. It's unfortunate that Google's efforts to secure it's fiber didn't happen a few years earlier, but if they did happen a few years earlier, it wouldn't have a made a difference, because upstream attacks were far more effective back then.
Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am at a loss for words. Arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ignorant, mendacious...nothing cuts it. It is illegal in the US but who cares about the rest of the world? I can not remember when something similar made me that angry as the current conduct of the US does. If I would not know better that this would negatively affect the whole world and innocent US citizens and that emotional reactions are usually not…
The purpose of intelligence agencies is to spy on non-citizens, both in peacetime and in wartime. One might argue that traditionally they focused on public figures in the foreign states and that spying on average foreigners is new; I don't know if that's true, but seems plausible. It would generally be a dereliction of duty for the NSA/CIA to not spy on non-Americans. The same holds true, modulo agency name and count…
Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide
#417Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
The terrorism threat is simply a convenient bogeyman. The probabilities of dying in a random terrorist attack are so infinitesimally small that it is not even worth considering. Ordinary Americans are simply too stupid to really comprehend exactly what is happening here and subscribe to the "well, I don't have anything to hide" type logic. The fact is that the terrorists have won. The American public, due to indiffer…
So, what types of widespread abusive things is the government doing to American citizens with all this surveillance? When you say "convenient bogeyman" it implies that all of this surveillance was built with the express purpose of spying on Americans. I personally believe that to be false, and instead that the massive and overbearing surveillance was built because public officials are so afraid of another massive ter…
As for public officials and voters and terrorism, I give you this:
> Representative Howard "Buck" McKeon, R-Calif., has received $526,600 from defense contractors and other defense industry interests, more than any other member of the House. He voted to continue the programs.
Source: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/07/29/316197/pronsa-congr...
I will leave you to draw your own conclusions about what that article is saying. I take it to mean that it costs $526,000 to get what I want from that guy.
Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide
#419Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's hard not to come to the conclusion that these activities were essentially criminal. I don't see how the administration can fail to disavow them, investigate them fully, and hold their instigators accountable. It feels like Special Prosecutor time. The government takes the position that their agents are almost completely unconstrained by law when it comes to actions taken abroad aimed at non-US persons. Even we…
I am at a loss for words. Arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ignorant, mendacious...nothing cuts it. It is illegal in the US but who cares about the rest of the world? I can not remember when something similar made me that angry as the current conduct of the US does. If I would not know better that this would negatively affect the whole world and innocent US citizens and that emotional reactions are usually not…
I'm as appalled as the next guy about the NSA's actions, but let's keep this in perspective here: many countries have 2 intelligence agencies, one for external and one for internal. Do "MI-5" and "MI-6" ring a bell?
Plus, in this particular instance: the GCHQ (British version of NSA) is the one passing along the wiretapped stuff to the NSA.
> We are not spying at US citizens, only at this other guys across the ocean.
In this instance, it's the guys across the ocean who are spying, and passing on the results to us.
Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide
#420“Look, NSA has platoons of lawyers and their entire job is figuring out how to stay within the law and maximize collection by exploiting every loophole,” Interesting how agencies, corporations and alike have the collective maturity of children. A grown up will say to a kid "you can't play with fire with your friend" and the kid immediately will think "he didn't say I can't play with fire with my other friend".