Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans • Hacker News Board

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#411

Post by machfive » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 9:34 PM UTC

graycat wrote: post #373

zecho wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize I'm unfairly ignoring 90% of your rant, but I just want to say I disagree with "too much government" as the issue here. When my computer breaks, I don't throw away my computer. I fix the problem. Size doesn't matter. Focus does. Large organizations can have plenty of thoughtful focus, too. When two terrorists explode bombs at a public event, I definitely don't want less "gumment." I want effective governmen…

I tried to make clear: Big gumment brings two problems. First, it wastes money. That's the smaller problem but still quite significant (we need to get our economy going, and wasting money hurts). Second, big gumment is a real threat to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" and nearly everything we want. But you want to emphasize "effective" gumment. Okay. So did I: I said that we should get the NSA being "saf…

while you make good points, please stop spelling it 'gumment', it makes you sound like one of the nutjobs.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#412

Post by betterunix » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 9:46 PM UTC

ppod wrote: post #168

kriro wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the standard counterargument is started by asking them if they have any curtains or blinds and if so, why? [or you can ask them if they'd be willing to have a streaming camera installed in their bedroom]

People who argue very strongly against government intrusion often seem to ignore the distinction between private and public spaces. I have no problem with any amount of recording equipment in public spaces. Anywhere that a policeman could stand and watch; I see a camera as an efficient aid. I won't let a policeman into my house unless they have a warrant - and not because I have anything to hide, but because upholdin…

"I have no problem with any amount of recording equipment in public spaces."

I do, because it increases the power of an already too-powerful police force. America is the world leader in throwing people in prison, we really do not need to give the police any more tools.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#413

Post by crazypyro » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 9:48 PM UTC

machfive wrote: post #411

graycat wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to make clear: Big gumment brings two problems. First, it wastes money. That's the smaller problem but still quite significant (we need to get our economy going, and wasting money hurts). Second, big gumment is a real threat to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" and nearly everything we want. But you want to emphasize "effective" gumment. Okay. So did I: I said that we should get the NSA being "saf…

while you make good points, please stop spelling it 'gumment', it makes you sound like one of the nutjobs.

I honestly had no idea what he meant by "gumment" and thought it was similar to a gauntlet or something. Had to say it out loud before I finally got it. Whats the fucking point of abbreviating something like government to gumment? It just makes you look unintelligent...

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#414

Post by betterunix » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 9:52 PM UTC

andreyf wrote: post #70

richtr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To notch up the paranoia a bit, the original court order document looks like it may contain some digital fingerprinting around the edges (either made by a certain class of printer or placed there prior to dissemination) that could lead authorities to the person(s) they originally distributed this specific copy of the court order to. Of course, I hope that is not the case here but people should be aware these things e…

I'd be really surprised if journalists who published leaks weren't well aware of digital fingerprinting, since protecting sources is integral to their profession.

Considering that journalists are not advising their sources to use Tor or anonymous remailers, not publishing PGP or S/MIME public keys as part of their contact information, and continuing to base their assumptions about technology on the reality of the 1960s, I am not sure why you would be surprised. Most journalists are as clueless about computing as the rest of the general population. The education system is doing an absolutely terrible job of educating people about technology, and journalism majors are not taught much about how computers work or how they can be attacked.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#415

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 9:53 PM UTC

andreyf wrote: post #70

richtr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To notch up the paranoia a bit, the original court order document looks like it may contain some digital fingerprinting around the edges (either made by a certain class of printer or placed there prior to dissemination) that could lead authorities to the person(s) they originally distributed this specific copy of the court order to. Of course, I hope that is not the case here but people should be aware these things e…

I'd be really surprised if journalists who published leaks weren't well aware of digital fingerprinting, since protecting sources is integral to their profession.

[deleted]

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#416

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 9:53 PM UTC

andreyf wrote: post #70

richtr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To notch up the paranoia a bit, the original court order document looks like it may contain some digital fingerprinting around the edges (either made by a certain class of printer or placed there prior to dissemination) that could lead authorities to the person(s) they originally distributed this specific copy of the court order to. Of course, I hope that is not the case here but people should be aware these things e…

I'd be really surprised if journalists who published leaks weren't well aware of digital fingerprinting, since protecting sources is integral to their profession.

[deleted]

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#417

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 9:55 PM UTC

andreyf wrote: post #70

richtr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To notch up the paranoia a bit, the original court order document looks like it may contain some digital fingerprinting around the edges (either made by a certain class of printer or placed there prior to dissemination) that could lead authorities to the person(s) they originally distributed this specific copy of the court order to. Of course, I hope that is not the case here but people should be aware these things e…

I'd be really surprised if journalists who published leaks weren't well aware of digital fingerprinting, since protecting sources is integral to their profession.

[deleted]

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#418

Post by nitrogen » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 10:01 PM UTC

khuey wrote: post #336

mtgx wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep the representative system, but add a ton of direct democracy influences to it. You can even take real world examples from countries like Germany or Finland, I believe, where the citizens can create their own bills, and then pass them through a referendum. It doesn't need to be 100% democracy, and it doesn't need to be 80-90% representative like US, either. It definitely needs to be a lot more towards direct demo…

I think the state of California is a pretty good counter-example to the purported benefits of increased direct democracy.

As I understand it, one of the problems with California's referendum system is that there's no built-in requirement to fund the initiatives. A referendum system might work better if every initiative had to provide for its own funding, and/or the state constitution required a balanced budget.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#419

Post by nitrogen » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 10:06 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #205

loup-vaillant wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't reboot the system, rewrite it. Instead of a representative government most western countries suffer, switch to democracy. I mean, democracy . Where the people decide for their rules directly. Where real democratic processes such as random trials are used, instead elections which by nature are heavily influenced by a tiny elite. Where the constitution itself is not written by those who will later rule the countr…

Keep the representative system, but add a ton of direct democracy influences to it. You can even take real world examples from countries like Germany or Finland, I believe, where the citizens can create their own bills, and then pass them through a referendum. It doesn't need to be 100% democracy, and it doesn't need to be 80-90% representative like US, either. It definitely needs to be a lot more towards direct demo…

I think a representative system where we select representatives based on area of influence rather than geography could work well, with the option to override our representative's vote on our behalf on specific issues.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#420

Post by _k » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 10:21 PM UTC

znowi wrote: post #248

digitalengineer wrote: post #82

Dutch person here with a little insight what's to come for you guys. Some information about our tiny little country (in Wester Europe, very pro-US) with just 17 million people. Our government listens in on more calls every year than in the whole of the US combined. All our telecommunications providers are forced to have the capability to intercept all traffic (phone and internet). Encrypted data must be stored for an…

Oddly enough, reading this made me want to move my NL servers elsewhere :)

Where to ?