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Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

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Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the test is designed, they use a wide variety of people. But the only people I ever hear taking an IQ tests are people that already know they are smart. Why? Because it probably feels good. Because why else? Is there any actionable item out of that test?

They are usually taken when a child struggles in school. The actionable item is 1. IQ is low, they probably need tutoring or special education classes; 2. IQ is high, they are probably too bored and need harder classes or some other intervention; 3. IQ is normal, probably it's some other issue. As an adult the actionable item may be to adjust your expectations of yourself. For example if I'm 90IQ and beating myself u…

> The actionable item is 1. IQ is low, they probably need tutoring or special education classes; 2. IQ is high, they are probably too bored and need harder classes or some other intervention; 3. IQ is normal, probably it's some other issue.

And this is precisely why I took the test. The only 'official' IQ test I've taken in my life. Psychiatrist told my dad I didn't have enough grit to stick with things I found boring. Guilty as charged. Fortunately grit did eventually happen, about 5 years later.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are usually taken when a child struggles in school. The actionable item is 1. IQ is low, they probably need tutoring or special education classes; 2. IQ is high, they are probably too bored and need harder classes or some other intervention; 3. IQ is normal, probably it's some other issue. As an adult the actionable item may be to adjust your expectations of yourself. For example if I'm 90IQ and beating myself u…

> The actionable item is 1. IQ is low, they probably need tutoring or special education classes; 2. IQ is high, they are probably too bored and need harder classes or some other intervention; 3. IQ is normal, probably it's some other issue. And this is precisely why I took the test. The only 'official' IQ test I've taken in my life. Psychiatrist told my dad I didn't have enough grit to stick with things I found borin…

Why did they need to do an IQ test though? Grit is a completely different dimension.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#413
post #410
post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t train human intelligence. It seems like you’re unaware of the goals and history of IQ. The whole point is to try to factor out learnable skills and measure pure cognitive capacity.

And yet, people who do IQ tests a lot score better. Sure, you can claim IQ test solving skill is not the same as intelligence - but then why are you measuring intelligence with IQ tests?

I’m not measuring with IQ tests nor defending the use of IQ tests, the authors of the article implicitly accepted them as a valid measure or proxy for intelligence, and implicitly assumed that happiness surveys should reflect proportional IQ scores. That is a bad assumption given that IQ scores do not measure absolute intelligence and they have an unknown scale factor at a minimum.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#414
post #404
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because intelligence is a physical attribute I question this assumption. Especially considering you can train intelligence .

You can’t train human intelligence. It seems like you’re unaware of the goals and history of IQ. The whole point is to try to factor out learnable skills and measure pure cognitive capacity.

[deleted]

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#415

Because we’re social animals and 84% of the population can’t do calculus or understand any meaningful statistics. It makes honest discussion and cooperation with the average person nearly impossible.

My secretary is absolutely clueless about maths and yet every interaction with her improves my mood, she is a lovely motherly 50something person who cheers you up every day. Her being my colleague definitely makes me happier.

She’s your secretary, she’s paid to be pleasant.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My secretary is absolutely clueless about maths and yet every interaction with her improves my mood, she is a lovely motherly 50something person who cheers you up every day. Her being my colleague definitely makes me happier.

For me it's the lack of curiosity that makes me resentful of people. I can understand completely people are clueless about maths. But having no curiosity about anything seems to be so common in this country right now.

Math is a thing of interest and time investment to better understand the world but it’s also got a IQ entry fee.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most people that take an IQ test come out as "geniuses" This is by definition false.

When the test is designed, they use a wide variety of people. But the only people I ever hear taking an IQ tests are people that already know they are smart. Why? Because it probably feels good. Because why else? Is there any actionable item out of that test?

I'd imagine the only people taking it are on either end of the curve - smart people who want a gold sticker, and not-smart people that need a sufficiently low IQ score to qualify for a government program.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#418
post #376
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> […] I don't think anyone who grew up in a bigger family under one roof could agree with that. I do. I grew up with 5 siblings, and having brothers and sisters is very, very different from having your own children. My relation with and my emotions towards my children is very different from my relation with and my emotions towards my siblings, both now and when I was still living with them in the same house.

Off-topic: I have absolutely no idea why my comment got downvoted. I shared a personal anecdote that's directly relevant to the discussion at hand and which counters the claim of the comment I replied to. Does someone think I'm lying? Was my comment too controversial? I don't get it. What is wrong with this site?

For what it's worth, I think that happens to everyone now because of all the bots and toxic astroturfing.

Since comments are sorted by points, it's more of an indication how touchy or dogmatic a subject is. I expect to lose points when I'm not the only reply. I've seen discussions where hours later a brigade of green accounts skyrocket to the top out of nowhere simply because they reinforce a more convenient idea. All of the original more interesting comments get downvoted.

With this one though, I don't know since all your replies are basically the same and you've all been here a while.

I actually expected my comment to get more downvotes since I was describing a tougher upbringing in a multi-generational household, but it got buried in noise. HN generally doesn't know how to handle more down-to-earth topics and defaults to thinking in stereotypes.

If there is a difference between the replies, the top one was made after yours and elaborates on being "tough" while still disagreeing, so maybe that's more convincing to some people?

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative design for an education system is quite a challenge. You say it allows smart but lazy people to succeed. In truth, it allows many kinds of people to succeed. And “the hardworking but less gifted kids struggle” doesn’t ring particularly true, unless you mean something quite strong by “less gifted”.

As with all things human it's a continuum and the education system (at least as it existed when I went through it which was to be fair decades ago) wasn't always great at getting that message across. I had a friend in my year, bright enough but where he excelled was in putting in the work , he studied harder for GCSE's (our secondary school educational qualifications) than basically anyone I've ever met studied for a…

I had a similar experience in mediocre exurb HS. Was top 5% or whatever of my class without really studying or even handing in completed homework.

Good friend in most of the same classes as me would often ask me for help on questions, but he just worked so much harder. He has a very intense father who obviously was on top of him about stuff. But putting in the effort to be top 1% instead of top 5% while also being a varsity football player got him into an Ivy, which was great for him. In some sense the system worked.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am now and have in the past been in this sort of position, albeit not with an existing completed degree under my belt, just a simple one-year continuing-ed diploma and years of sporadic career experience. I went back to attempt to complete my CS degree on the basis that I figured I already had learnt most of what I would learn anyway and might as well both prove to myself I can do it, as well as get the credential…

I did take a one off course at a local college a couple years back and was able to do well (had a 95% average all semester) and get all my homework done. It was, however, a subject I found fascinating. On the other hand, my work performance severely suffered that semester and I got my first poor performance review. Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that stimulant ADHD medication isn't for me. It worked well…

Welbutrin, while having some sort of stimulant effect, and often prescribed for ADHD, is not at all the same as real stimulant medications.

It often helps people with ADHD because they have been prescribed this almost-stimulant to anxiety or depression (often caused directly or indirectly by ADHD symptoms and life), and it makes them better, because it's finally treating an actual cause rather than a downstream effect.

But most people running into that situation are way better off just taking a real ADHD stimulant.

It looks like Strattera is similar. It claims to be about as effective as Concerta, but being someone who has tried welbutrin, there is just no comparison to what a moderate dose of a real stimulant does.

The continued refusal for society to just let ADHD people take a tested, proven, safe, effective medication because if you smoke an entire bottle of it at once it will get you high (something that is less useful to someone with ADHD! Lots of people found out they were ADHD when they tried cocaine for the first time, and instead of being high, were suddenly normal ) is infuriating.

One other note, my family for multiple generations has massively struggled with "seasonal" depression, or chronic depression, or constant "Fatigue" where working a full 8 hour day leaves you feeling like you just ran a marathon and your brain screams out to just go lay down and not function. My mother continues to suffer from this. I was starting to suffer from this immensely, and was worried I also had Fibromyalgia like my mom.

Right up until I took the first, minimum dose, of concerta. I haven't had that fatigue since. Because it was ADHD. It was always ADHD. I no longer get Seasonal Affective Disorder. I recently went through a life event that in the past would have left me crying in bed for an entire year. I am sad, actually I am gutted. I am depressed. But I can still do my job right now, because I can focus on what I want to focus on, and process my feelings when it's healthier to do so.

Did you know one of the side effects of Concerta is "elevated mood"? Literally a happy pill. You know what's really effective for an ADHD person who has spent their entire life spiraling in anxiety and suffering from depressive episodes? Being able to focus on the here and now, rather than whatever anxiety your brain was stuck on.

I'm not going to tell you to try those stimulants since you might have already, but so many people are sandbagged with their ADHD diagnosis by people giving them a shittier medication just because it won't involve paperwork with the DEA, or some moral panic bullshit.

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