Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

linuxstans.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 537 posts

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#411

Post by tstrimple »

mosura wrote: post #53
Aurornis wrote: post #24

Not that I'm condoning it, but this law requires self-declaration, not verification. It might sound pedantic but the practical difference is huge. Self-declaration means that the system asks the user to declare if they are a minor. Nothing is verified. Age verification typically means a system which checks ID or has other enforcement measures to try to verify age.

It is a technical ratchet. Once you accept part of the implementation it will never be undone, more will be added.

This is a nonsense argument considering over half the states have already put actual ID verification requirements in front of "adult content". Blue states are trying to ratchet to what red states just pass? Why? They could just follow suit and require you to upload your ID to a 3rd party service and scan your face. Your conspiracy theories don't seem to hold up to reality.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#412

Post by soulofmischief »

otterley wrote: post #408
lrvick wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is being convicted and doing hard time for refusing to add age verification to a Linux distro. This is just more fear mongering. It would be a fine or a few days of jail until bail is posted, at worst. And then a media shit show where the public is certain to side with the developer who is having their rights violated to discourage this from ever happening again. The public even got the back of weev for his bu…

> No one is being convicted and doing hard time for refusing to add age verification to a Linux distro. That's not the point. The point is that people who don't face a real possibility of being convicted and imprisoned are the ones who make the most noise about how they're willing to accept imprisonment (or, worse, are cheering on others to be imprisoned as some sort of Cyberpunk Martyr). As I said elsewhere - it's e…

This reads like your personal fantasy. It's also insulting to people who stand by these words all the way down the slippery slope. People who spend time trying to make the world safer for you and others.

Instead of positioning yourself adversarially and making unfounded and unwarranted claims about others, it would be more productive to engage in good faith and seek to lend a hand.

You've already made flat-out incorrect assumptions about me, indirect or not. Calibrate yourself.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#413

Post by tstrimple »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #100
MrJohz wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they could also just implement verification now, which many governments are trying to do. The idea that you shouldn't let a government do one thing because they might do another thing is flawed if they could already do the other thing. The danger of a slippery slope comes when one change enables the next change - for example, a law mandating certain kinds of data collection enables a future decision to discrimina…

'AnimalMuppet has the right take upthread ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49249774 ): "Once you accept their right to ask , then you open the door to their right to a truthful answer, and thus to a verified answer. > But they could also just implement verification now, which many governments are trying to do. That itself is a proof: the voluntary age declaration was and is common on all the services that gover…

Nope. It's a stupid take. Especially considering over half of the US states have jumped right to looking for that verified answer but no one on HN gives a shit when red states do things. They only ever bitch and moan when a blue state is doing something far less invasive and then they have to turn it into a conspiracy theory that the blue states are secretly trying to do what the red states are just blatantly doing in the open with zero push back.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#414

Post by otterley »

soulofmischief wrote: post #405
otterley wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incarcerated temporarily (e.g. awaiting trial or a prosecution decision), or actually convicted and sentenced to imprisonment? These two things are not the same.

You're right, they're not.

So which was it?

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#415

Post by terribleperson »

ivl wrote: post #333
terribleperson wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's possible to lose a battle you were never going to win in the first place, and end up in a worse place. I think that if these types of laws (illinois, california) don't hit a critical mass, we're going to see ID verification become the dominant method of age verification. Most websites will use it, and it'll become global because it's easier to just demand an ID and a photo for every user through some third p…

> This is especially true since it's now been demonstrated that states (like Texas) can go after out-of-state sites serving people in Texas. Hey, give credit where credit's due. The first to try that was NJ going after 3d printed gun developers.

Yeah, I'm not super happy about all the 3d printing control legislation going around, which I frankly think is a lot more overreaching than these age declaration laws.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#416

Post by otterley »

soulofmischief wrote: post #412
otterley wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is being convicted and doing hard time for refusing to add age verification to a Linux distro. That's not the point. The point is that people who don't face a real possibility of being convicted and imprisoned are the ones who make the most noise about how they're willing to accept imprisonment (or, worse, are cheering on others to be imprisoned as some sort of Cyberpunk Martyr). As I said elsewhere - it's e…

This reads like your personal fantasy. It's also insulting to people who stand by these words all the way down the slippery slope. People who spend time trying to make the world safer for you and others. Instead of positioning yourself adversarially and making unfounded and unwarranted claims about others, it would be more productive to engage in good faith and seek to lend a hand. You've already made flat-out incorr…

My "personal fantasy"? Give me a break.

You've gone off the rails. You're not the hero saving the world that you make yourself out to be. Get over yourself.

I'm done with this thread.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#417

Post by soulofmischief »

otterley wrote: post #410
soulofmischief wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is is also clear that there are major deficits in our Constitution but that the amendment process has failed to survive a modern world. Any of our original forefathers would recognize today's American federal government as an overreach from their indended form of government. The only reason we aren't seeing a Boston Tea Party 2.0 over the recent string of coordinated assaults against our inalienable human rights is b…

Are you seriously comparing the "oppression" of a programmer who is forbidden from distributing an OS that fails to ask the user's age to the actual oppression of Black people in the United States before the Civil Rights Era? The oppression that involved lynching? Jesus H. Christ.

You have no idea who I am, what hardships I have dealt with, and clearly don't have a complete understanding of civil liberties if you cannot make the connection between the violation of two different Constitutional rights.

Your current negativity is not welcome, if you are an attorney then please conduct yourself with more professionalism. If you want to seek to understand, great, but now you are being aggressive and negative and making a host of unfounded assumptions.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#418

Post by soulofmischief »

otterley wrote: post #416
soulofmischief wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like your personal fantasy. It's also insulting to people who stand by these words all the way down the slippery slope. People who spend time trying to make the world safer for you and others. Instead of positioning yourself adversarially and making unfounded and unwarranted claims about others, it would be more productive to engage in good faith and seek to lend a hand. You've already made flat-out incorr…

My "personal fantasy"? Give me a break. You've gone off the rails. You're not the hero saving the world that you make yourself out to be. Get over yourself. I'm done with this thread.

You quite frankly have the conversational intelligence of a petulant child and I would not seek your legal advice in any matter if this is how you conduct yourself when discussing law with others online.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#419

Post by otterley »

soulofmischief wrote: post #417
otterley wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously comparing the "oppression" of a programmer who is forbidden from distributing an OS that fails to ask the user's age to the actual oppression of Black people in the United States before the Civil Rights Era? The oppression that involved lynching? Jesus H. Christ.

You have no idea who I am, what hardships I have dealt with, and clearly don't have a complete understanding of civil liberties if you cannot make the connection between the violation of two different Constitutional rights. Your current negativity is not welcome, if you are an attorney then please conduct yourself with more professionalism. If you want to seek to understand, great, but now you are being aggressive an…

I'm happy to let the court of public opinion settle this one.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#420

Post by soulofmischief »

otterley wrote: post #414
soulofmischief wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, they're not.

So which was it?

I am amazed that an attorney would ask me to divulge this kind of highly personal information in a public forum when I am clearly trying to be discreet.
Post reply on HN