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Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

blog.ericgoldman.org

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Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#411

Post by antonvs »

austhrow743 wrote: post #372
dartharva wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in case someone might mistake this comment to imply there wasn't actually a large-scale CSA-as-a-service business happening on his island - FBI has officially declared the number of minor victims to be over a thousand: https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1407001/dl It was an industrial-scale racket. It is impossible for that kind of number of victims to be just for one person or group's recreation.

I think you linked to the wrong document, unless you're taking "Epstein had over ten thousand pornographic videos and images" as "there were over one thousand minor victims" which doesn't follow as a logical conclusion.

Two quotes from the link they posted:

> The files relating to Epstein include a large volume of images of Epstein, images and videos of victims who are either minors or appear to be minors

> Consistent with prior disclosures, this review confirmed that Epstein harmed over one thousand victims. Each suffered unique trauma. Sensitive information relating to these victims is intertwined throughout the materials.

The second quote doesn’t explicitly say “minor victims”, but the whole document is focused on that, mentioning that “One of our highest priorities is combatting child exploitation and bringing justice to victims.”

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#412

Post by rationalist »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #362
fluoridation wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rate is just a ratio between two quantities. You've never heard speed defined as the rate of movement? I might have interpreted your example as such if not for the "one too many" comment. It's strange to throw out a completely fictitious figure and then lament it as if it's real.

who is fighting windmills now? :P see how your patience has been rewarded... no good deed goes unpunished. he will never produce an actual figure. look at his other replies. such a victim complex. on behalf of the catholic church. regarding their sexual abuse of minors. what more is there to say?

> he will never produce an actual figure.

> It's strange to throw out a completely fictitious figure and then lament it as if it's real.

You two are insufferable.

Anyway:

If you do an online search, the first results you may get, say how hard it is to compare. Here is one comparison that I did find:

https://actheologian.com/2025/04/22/comparing-child-abuse-ra...

Please note, this is not where I got my figures years ago, as I no longer have access to that source.

> Public Schools ~450 per 100,000

> Boy Scouts ~100–200 per 100,000

> Protestant Churches Likely 1–5 per 100,000

> Catholic Church (Priests Only) ~1 per 100,000

Also note, something like 90% of the Boy Scout sexual abuse cases were prior to the 1970s before they started mandating adults to take youth protection training. Today, the Boy Scouts and Catholic Church have some of the most comprehensive youth protection traing around, way better than any schools' youth protection training according to educators that I've talked with.

Good riddance. Go sharpen your ideological axes somewhere else.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#413

Post by psd1 »

soundnote wrote: post #279
michaelmrose wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original proposal was to use a visual hash designed to identify known bad CSAM images even if cropped or otherwise edited. Your computer would scan all your stuff for these images and report you to apple who would report you to the cops. This presented a number of issues. Accidental false positives could lead to horrific outcomes up to and including oh look bob got shot by the cops for resisting. It was possible…

> Apple could be forced to scan for ANYTHING by repressive regimes including America and China. Including Europe. Europe is ruled by people who think 1984 was an instruction manual.

Europe is a fractal mix of polities ruled by a constant flux of elected representatives, and consequently exhibits political behaviour from a wide range of constituencies. Each citizen agrees, presumably, with some policies and disagrees with others, then they vote as best as they are able - which is not very, since every large electorate in the world falls short of adequate political competence. Some of those people vote for authoritarians, which i consider a shame but which is also true in your closest democratic nation.

European citizen surveillance is something i oppose, but at least it's balanced by a robust bill of human rights. America's surveillance state does not have that balance, because America wrote a bill of rights but didn't bother with the follow-through.

Kindly don't use my continent as a punching bag, thanks.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#414

Post by antonvs »

deejaaymac wrote: post #382
Spooky23 wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more… enthusiastic gun people among us think that the national firearms act (which strictly regulates automatic weapons) is an abomination. It’s unique in that it’s the only right that aligns with business marketing. Peddling fear, mostly to insecure men, has sold hundreds of millions of guns. The fetishized nature of modern gun culture killed, in addition to people, a lot of shooting sports and hunting.

What a strange take. I grew up in a small hunting town (I'm in my early 30s), where most high school boys (most girls didn't hunt, but some did) had a rifle and/or shotgun in their truck, mounted against the inside back of the cab where you could see it plain view. We had 0 homicides from guns in the 19 years I lived there, there was 1 suicide by gun that I know of. Many of us grew up hunting to feed our family. This…

> see them as a tool.

Yes, a tool for killing. You’re respectful of guns, but where’s your respect for life?

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#415

Post by consp »

psd1 wrote: post #404
mschuster91 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The claim is we will restrict/license/outlaw xyz for the kids, but really, a data-drive approach would have focused on different things entirely (eg additional behavioral health services for kids, suicide prevention etc) Well, most of Europe simply has banned guns in the hands of civilians instead, so that's some data as well. The only reason why the US is so extremely lax on firearms is because people keep blather…

> Well, most of Europe simply has banned guns in the hands of civilians instead, so that's some data as well No, that's some bullshit. How do you think we eat pheasant and rabbit and venison? Show me a pheasant farm and I'll show you forty acres of unfenced woodland littered with empty cartridges. Observe! https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-owner...

My guess is the person is drawing from one country and applying it to all. The rules are varied all over the EU. e.g. You can buy pheasant, rabbit and venison at the butcher shop where I live. No hunting required, which you can do but requires a special permit, next to the weapons permit for the shotgun and is very limited in scope.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#416

Post by redeeman »

xethos wrote: post #355
derektank wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only reason why the US is so extremely lax on firearms is because people keep blathering on about how guns are the last line of defense against a tyrannical government No, it’s because the right to own firearms is very explicitly stated in our constitution and the constitution requires an extreme super majority to update. A 50%+1 majority is all that’s required to ban civilian ownership of guns in most parliamen…

> the right to own firearms is very explicitly stated in our constitution The right to bear arms does not necessarily mean firearms. Arms doesn't necessarily even have to include firearms, and America is already pretty damn strict about certain armaments, such as sub-machine guns. Americans are allowed to have certain firearms, sometimes, in some places. I'm not sure how one squares that with the blanket statement fr…

and this is very clearly unconstitutional. "shall not be infringed" is very very plain and simple

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#417

Post by tjoff »

amazingamazing wrote: post #4

It is crazy people think apple isnt on the side of privacy. Are they perfect? Not even close, but compared to the rest of big tech theyre simply on another level. Apple could easily not do this stuff and it may even be easier to not.

To me it is crazy people go out of their way to defend apple in this area.

They might be slightly better than some others (horray!) but given their ecosystem it is still the worst platform if you value any form of freedom. Depending on apple for your privacy is ignorance at best.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#418

Post by austhrow743 »

antonvs wrote: post #411
austhrow743 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you linked to the wrong document, unless you're taking "Epstein had over ten thousand pornographic videos and images" as "there were over one thousand minor victims" which doesn't follow as a logical conclusion.

Two quotes from the link they posted: > The files relating to Epstein include a large volume of images of Epstein, images and videos of victims who are either minors or appear to be minors > Consistent with prior disclosures, this review confirmed that Epstein harmed over one thousand victims. Each suffered unique trauma. Sensitive information relating to these victims is intertwined throughout the materials. The sec…

I read the whole thing twice because I was fairly sure I missed something the first go around and still missed that second quote. My reading comprehension is atrocious. Thanks and sorry dartharva.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#419

Post by throw1234567891 »

novok wrote: post #396
kelnos wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are handgun deaths predominantly murder, or are they mostly accidents? If the latter, then I don't think it's odd to go after AR-15-type weapons, which usually end up killing people during mass shooting incidents.

you could of literally googled it, it's murder

Could have

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#420

Post by IshKebab »

kyralis wrote: post #257
IshKebab wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're suggesting they purposely put a backdoor into all their custom methods? Why? I'm not sure what you mean by "custom methods", but I'm not saying they have bypassed the e2e encryption - I'm just saying that they technically could . And as for why they would do that, they might get compelled by a government to do it secretly. As far as I know that hasn't happened yet but I see no reason it couldn't and it would…

They are not lying when they say that they cannot read your messages at rest or in transit without actively changing the code so that you start trusting a new key. The keys sync between devices in ways that Apple cannot read . This is not bulletproof, because they can potentially change the code to do this - this is what the FBI vs Apple thing was a few years ago was all about.

> ...without actively changing the code so that you start trusting a new key.

Yes but the problem is there's nothing stopping them from doing that. If Apple/Meta rely on the argument that they technically cannot read people's messages then they will eventually lose because it's simply not true.

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