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Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

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Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#411

Post by int_19h »

9x39 wrote: post #291
impendia wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People treat email has a permanent data store. Is this strange? I'll be trying to solve some problem, half-remember an email conversation from several years ago on something relevant, and want to look it up. This feels like the most natural thing in the world to me, and it's not like the ability to save emails is new. Why, exactly, would a forced change of habits be for my own good?

>Why, exactly, would a forced change of habits be for my own good? At the personal level, it wouldn't be. It makes a lot of sense, and I do the same with Fastmail. At the corp level where it's often in M365 cloud, you've got hard limits from Microsoft on one hand (100GB primary mailbox - period), and corporate data retention limits on the other. Legal often has strong opinions on how long you are allowed to retain em…

I don't recall any kind of retention limits at Microsoft, at least not for engineers. My mail archives went all the way back to my hire date even 15 years later.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#412

Post by rho138 »

eyeris wrote: post #136
rho138 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downside of the native app is the open abuse of surveillance. Why does Teams _need_ local network access to function on my ipad? Why does outlook want access to bluetooth from my phone? Users don’t want to have to configure every app to fuck off, and native web apps (the world we _all_ live in) work way better than some hodgepodge of shit baked together by copilot that’s using unsafe calls and/or libraries.

The teams conferencing solution probably needs it. It’s pretty spiffy when it works - it detects whether you’re in the same room as the conferencing device and potentially suggests muting

Or just… mute the audio

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#413

Post by kalleboo »

Joe_Cool wrote: post #245
kalleboo wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How big is the calculator app on Windows 11 that you need to cache it in RAM? On macOS, the calculator app is 6 MB. And that's containing both x64 and ARM code. How long does it take a modern SSD (6 GB/s?) to read that?

If it's the same as on Win10 it's a UWP App that needs a ton of dependencies like .net, WinUI2/XAML. The appx is: Approximate size 21.8 MB according to https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9wzdncrfhvn5 Win7 calc.exe had 758KB for i686 and 897KB for amd64.

Reminds me of the early days of MacOS X when the Calculator app was written in Java as a demo of how fantastic and native their Java integration with Cocoa bindings was. This of course made it horribly slow to launch since initializing the JVM back then was a massive chore.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#414

Post by Khaine »

Teams, the new outlook are both piles of garbage. They've been garbage for years, and will probably still be garbage in a decade from now.

Teams takes 2gig of memory on launch, and still misses keystrokes because it is so unresponsive. Click on someone and start typing and half your chat isn't recorded. Absolute hot garbage.

Outlook isn't much better.

People who worked on them should be ashamed to consider these products shippable.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#415

Post by pseudohadamard »

brnt wrote: post #389
anakaine wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres a lot of friction from enterprise Microsoft admins, too. "But how will I group policy and Entra xyz?" is a concern I hear regularly, but still struggle to educate them away from.

How do you educate them though?

I've found a clue-by-four to be a relatively effective tool.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#416

Post by Shorel »

ryandvm wrote: post #144
reaperducer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Windows. It's everything Microsoft. What steams my clams is that I can press Reply in Outlook and be halfway through the first sentence of my message before the reply window even opens. (M4 Pro) Almost every time I use Outlook, I have to rewrite my first sentence because half of it was typed before Outlook was finished doing whatever it does in the background. This doesn't happen with other mail clients…

You're right, but it's not just Microsoft. I've been doing software engineering for 20+ years. I've been at a lot of different companies and at almost every single one I'm always kind of flabbergasted at how shabby the engineering is. I think maybe ONCE in my career did I work somewhere that I was proud of the engineering we were doing and it was a 18 month consulting gig at a startup with 3 engineers. This isn't hub…

Yep, let the AI write efficient code in a compiled language. Switch everything to C++/Dlang/Rust. You are not writing the code anyway, so all arguments against those languages are moot now. Replace Node.js, Electron, and even Java/C#.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#417

Post by econ »

raincole wrote: post #351
modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

> It has been polished and ready since at least 2019. Linux people said things like this in 2019 too. It's always "been improved a lot in the past few years" (not saying this statement can't be true.) At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up.

Having no one to ask if you can't get things to work was a big issue until LLMs came along. You can ask things online but people are reluctant to keep asking and/or keep explaining what they've tried.

I'm sure the lone Linux experimenter just gave up some place half way configuring the HP printer.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#418

Post by VladVladikoff »

nzoschke wrote: post #36

Genuinely curious how quality is so poor at MS. Tech debt and deadlines and red tape? This is the company that invented the term dogfooding and forced everyone to use Exchange until all the bugs were worked out. I’m building a next gen web mail app at work and there are a ton of UX edge cases but the performance of the core UI is not rocket science. I’m looking for help play testing to squash bugs, improve the last m…

It’s funny because your demo is full of spinners.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#419

Post by h4kunamata »

Up to middle 2000s, softwares were required to be installed either via downloading an EXE or CDROM.

Nowadays everything is cloude based including e-mails, you have zero reasons to use Windows as an end user.

Adobe is RIP and the alternative supports Linux, gaming is no longer excuse and in fact, games anti-cheat require kernel level access on Windows, that will never happen on Linux.

Companies still use Windows because they can track everything, Microsoft Teams is more than just a chat, it tracks your status, keyboard usage, interaction with teams, camera on/off during meeting, mic, etc.

Companies can build a whole profile from your Teams data.

Windows is the most unsecure OS, it has always been, so companies can spend millions or billions of dollars on tools and services to make Windows somewhat usable.

Also, forcing engineers to use Windows to manage Linux servers has to be the most nonsense thing ever.

Make that makes sense.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#420

Post by fracus »

sirwitti wrote: post #358
modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

Man, I just realized it's been 20 years for me. I vaguely remember sometime in 2006 that Windows Vista was inevitable and decided to switch to linux. I don't care about fussing around and just need a useful machine for work and fun. Linux is far from perfect for me but the amount of crap windows or macos throw at me when I have to use them is almost comical.

Same for me. Possibly longer. I just never think about Windows anymore. I think it helps these days that "programs" aren't so much a thing anymore. A lot of what used to be an OS program is now a free online service.. like email, word processing, chats, multimedia, etc..
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