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Can we have the day off?

mlsu.io

411–420 of 823 posts

Re: Can we have the day off?

#411
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s no reason, even under capitalism that we must allow all of the productivity gains to accrue to the benefit of solely those at the top of an enormous pile of wealth. I would question the premise that all or even most of the productivity gains of any past technological improvement have accrued to the benefit of solely those at the top of an enormous pile of wealth. 200 years ago 90% of Americans lived on farm…

> The economic surplus from that increase in productivity accrued to everyone in society, not just the wealthy. Sure, a poor man with two dollars is richer than a poor man with one dollar. And yet the man handing out the dollars had 100$ in surplus when he was handing out 1s and now that he's handing out 2's he's got 1,000,000,000. Look at the wealth disparity. Even if quality of life has increased, it's not wrong fo…

> Look at the wealth disparity. Even if quality of life has increased, it's not wrong for the people delivering that increased quality of life (workers) to also demand a requisite slice of the pie.

Sure, but the argument being made is that "productivity gains accrue to the benefit of solely those at the top of an enormous pile of wealth."

That is simply not true. Across the entire world, from rich countries to poor countries, economic development, driven in large part by technological development, has resulted in a dramatic improvement to everyone's quality of life.

https://ourworldindata.org/history-of-poverty-has-just-begun

The way some people talk about it, it's as though they wish they were middle class in the 1920s instead of in the 2020s. People are so. much. richer. today. In ways that really matter, like education, retirement, ability to travel the world. MEDICINE.

I get that it still sucks today. The only point I'm making is that it's false that the historical economic surplus has accrued "solely" (or even, mostly) to the wealthiest. It's not true.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#412
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you not seen people who work longer and harder get more promotions? That has been my experience.

Not outside of the tech world, and in many industries if you aren't salaried it can get you fired because they have to pay overtime.

In finance this is the norm. The people who work the most make the most and there are no rules. I’ve seen people get fired for not working weekends. And overtime is not a thing, its just end of year bonuses.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#413
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s the other way around. Hourly wages are paid directly for time at work

At least in the US, there are regulations around what constitutes "full time" employment, and many benefits (such as insurance) are tied into being offered only for full time employees, or at different tiers between part and full time. As such, you are still expected to work a minimum amount of time. That's what you're signing up for. Fixed deliverable contracts- completing certain objectives- tend to either specify…

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Re: Can we have the day off?

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't understand why people make these hyperbolic jokes about guillotines. Violence is counterproductive; and not practical anyway. Joking about it just makes you feel great without actually doing anything. There is a simple alternative. Vote; and educate your family and friends. If you don't know what is on the ballot in the midterms, you are part of the problem. If you aren't starting a family conversation about…

[flagged]

Re: Can we have the day off?

#415
post #33

This article is kind of playful, but I think there’s a serious point here that’s not discussed enough. We’re being asked to usher in huge productivity gains by introducing AI to our workflows, but we’re not asking how does it help us? Not a lot of us stand to directly gain from our employers becoming more productive. I know everybody is afraid of getting fired and replaced with AI or whatever right now. But we should…

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Re: Can we have the day off?

#416
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s no reason, even under capitalism that we must allow all of the productivity gains to accrue to the benefit of solely those at the top of an enormous pile of wealth. I would question the premise that all or even most of the productivity gains of any past technological improvement have accrued to the benefit of solely those at the top of an enormous pile of wealth. 200 years ago 90% of Americans lived on farm…

> I would question the premise that all or even most of the productivity gains of any past technological improvement have accrued to the benefit of solely those at the top of an enormous pile of wealth. The historical automation story seems to be that technology replaces workers, and those workers typically end up taking lower-paying jobs: "replacing workers with technology “explains 50 to 70%” of the increase in ine…

> The historical automation story seems to be that technology replaces workers, and those workers typically end up taking lower-paying jobs

As I said, when farming became more efficient, it wasn't great to be a farmer.

But when I say (and I assume everyone else here also says) "I don't want to go back to a world where 90% of people had to be farmers" (because farming was so inefficient), that's another way of saying, the world that farming efficiencies gave us is richer / more preferable overall than the previous world. In other words, the economic surplus did not go exclusively or primarily to the richest.

I expect the same will be true for AI. I think our society should do more to help the displaced. But I do not want my grandchildren to live in a world where, 100 years from now, 90% of people are still doing jobs that could be done by a computer, but we choose for the computer not to do them. Just like I wouldn't want to have to be a farmer.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#417
post #6

Star Trek post-scarcity economy when?? https://rickwebb.medium.com/the-economics-of-star-trek-29bab...

we are very well past post-scarcity. we definitely choose consumption over free time for the most part. people generally choose nicer home, starbucks, vacay, neflix over work hours or retirement. so this is a cultural issue

It’s the healthcare for me.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#418
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He has this great quote about when computers came out: "We were told 'computers will save you so much time on work tasks that you won't even know what to do with your free time'. I spent the next 30 years working the same number of hours. " From about one hundred years ago: > Now it is true that the needs of human beings may seem to be insatiable. But they fall into two classes --those needs which are absolute in t…

In some European countries, you can actually go on welfare and never work again. It takes some tricks because the state doesn’t like it; and maybe you‘ll want to do some undeclared side jobs for 15h a week and you’ll be comfortable. I don’t know how such people can live with themselves. But apparently, if you’re immune to the second factor, it is possible, nowadays, to work 15h or less, without any wealth, and lead a…

Oh sure, you get free stuff indefinitely if you abuse the system. You sound like that tiktok post about the "infinite free money glitch" that is check fraud.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#419
post #65

The four day work week is a prisoner's dilemma. If everyone did it, then we'd all get a payoff, but if someone defects to a longer work week they tend to get ahead at work. Thus we all do it and thus we all lose. It's funny how underappreciated it is how the five day work week is powered by norms...at least in the US. People assume there are laws about it. The only laws dictate compensation past certain thresholds, a…

My thinking tends to be that our standard work week is an equilibrium among a few different forces. We’re motivated by social norms, capital markets, and biological needs and wants. In places like the U.S. the market forces have been powerful enough to really shift social norms. In tandem they’re probably slowly altering our biology too.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#420
post #76
post #65

The four day work week is a prisoner's dilemma. If everyone did it, then we'd all get a payoff, but if someone defects to a longer work week they tend to get ahead at work. Thus we all do it and thus we all lose. It's funny how underappreciated it is how the five day work week is powered by norms...at least in the US. People assume there are laws about it. The only laws dictate compensation past certain thresholds, a…

What do you mean? You just need to ban companies from doing 5 days work.

Same logic applies internationally.
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