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Using AI to write better code more slowly

nolanlawson.com

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Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#411

Post by nullsanity »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #210
nullsanity wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its like that phase people go through where they argue with morons on reddit, and then one day grow up and realize that most of these people are unemployed/underemployed terminally online nobodies aren't ever going to learn anything, and even if they did it wouldn't impact the world since they were just some below average hobbyist anyway and aren't in charge of anything more important than a box of paperclips.

That might be true on general-population social media, but the opposite is the case in niche groups, and in particular, this very industry we're in - software - was largely built on terminally online hobbyists.

[dead]

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#412

Post by bottlepalm »

blehn wrote: post #358
bottlepalm wrote: post #4

I've hit this point with AI where it's not a simple process, but a long drawn out back and forth. I'll use AI to design the implementation of a medium sized, cross cutting feature. Review all the details, maybe iterate on just that. Then implement with Claude 4.7 Max - which runs slower, but does a better job. Then review the implementation, then have Codex GPT 5.5 xhigh fast review it - which almost always finds cor…

This seems like a typical AI workflow, but isn't it dreadfully boring?

No, I find it stimulating. With AI I'm moving faster and producing code at a higher quality than ever before.

Don't get me wrong I used to enjoy writing code by hand, but I don't think I would anymore. I don't like writing code for the sake of writing code - I like building things, I like being productive.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#413

Post by bottlepalm »

zrn900 wrote: post #280
bottlepalm wrote: post #4

I've hit this point with AI where it's not a simple process, but a long drawn out back and forth. I'll use AI to design the implementation of a medium sized, cross cutting feature. Review all the details, maybe iterate on just that. Then implement with Claude 4.7 Max - which runs slower, but does a better job. Then review the implementation, then have Codex GPT 5.5 xhigh fast review it - which almost always finds cor…

You could just use Xiaomi Mimo for all of that and it would be cheaper and faster than all of them...

Quality is 100x more important than cheaper/faster.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#414

Post by blharr »

baq wrote: post #220
DonHopkins wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great to work from home so you can take nice little micro naps while code's generating, reviewing, building, and deploying. A calm attentive alternative of vibe coding: restful coding. It's much easier to read and review code after a refreshing cat nap, especially with a real cat. Too bad that's not usually acceptable to do that in the office. It should be! Slacking off by sword fighting all day is too exhaustin…

Nap while you can. The baseline is slowly raising; AI fed with organization context will hunt you down and lay you off, as it has done at multiple companies this spring already.

I mean, I didn't read it as a joke. Taking a rest can lead to a clearer ability to think... thereby being more productive, not less.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#415

Post by qaq »

My workflow now

1) While walking voice chat with ChatGPT about architecture and various interesting angles for a feature or product

2) Have it create summary of things we talked about

3) use that to seed spec development phase

4) write comprehensive specs using both Claude Code and Codex

5) create todos from specs

6) implement todos using both Claude Code and Codex to check each others work

7) run focused code check prompts e.g. specifically for error handaling, concurrency issues etc. They tend to find more issues in these focused passes.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#416

Post by bottlepalm »

jiggawatts wrote: post #268
bottlepalm wrote: post #4

I've hit this point with AI where it's not a simple process, but a long drawn out back and forth. I'll use AI to design the implementation of a medium sized, cross cutting feature. Review all the details, maybe iterate on just that. Then implement with Claude 4.7 Max - which runs slower, but does a better job. Then review the implementation, then have Codex GPT 5.5 xhigh fast review it - which almost always finds cor…

The funny thing is that you've just described an idealised development process as would be used by effective, skilled humans in a heterogenous team where everyone has a speciality. If only things were so! If only code was discussed, reviewed, iterated on! If only the "manager" actually read the code, provided actionable feedback, and disseminated PRs to multiple people with diverse skill sets. (If you can't tell, I'm…

I've worked in large teams for many years and yes it's just like that, but without the time constraint. PR's can only go back and forth so many times. Depending on the reviewer they may phone it in, or focus on different things depending on the person. You yourself aren't able to implement every piece of feedback due to constraints and it ends up as tech debt.

So AI definitely changes the game. I feel like we almost need something higher level for reviewers to review changes faster. Todays code is starting to feel like assembler. Too much of it, too low level. We need even higher level constructs to be able to more in less time. I'm just not sure what that is.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#417

Post by bottlepalm »

petesergeant wrote: post #253
bottlepalm wrote: post #4

I've hit this point with AI where it's not a simple process, but a long drawn out back and forth. I'll use AI to design the implementation of a medium sized, cross cutting feature. Review all the details, maybe iterate on just that. Then implement with Claude 4.7 Max - which runs slower, but does a better job. Then review the implementation, then have Codex GPT 5.5 xhigh fast review it - which almost always finds cor…

The Claude/Codex loop is the current state of the art in my opinion. I've got a silly little harness that glues them together that I have spent all day, every day in for months: https://github.com/pjlsergeant/moarcode

> You design, Claude writes, Codex reviews, and Gemini doesn't get installed

hahahahaha

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#418

Post by goolz »

tyrust wrote: post #400
hrideshmg wrote: post #381

As a junior, i do actually enjoy going back and forth with the AI discussing different ways to implement something and exploring alternatives. More often than not, I'd have an architectural idea that I'm not that confident in. The process of talking with the LLM takes a long time but it helps me sharpen the initial approach or even come up with a new one depending on the requirements.

Be sure to explicitly ask for critiques or alternatives. In my experience the machine is really susceptible to a sort of anchoring effect.

In this vein, I have a system level memory for Claude to push back and give me direct feedback when possible. So far a success as it helps cut through the sycophancy.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#419

Post by bottlepalm »

comboy wrote: post #297
bottlepalm wrote: post #4

I've hit this point with AI where it's not a simple process, but a long drawn out back and forth. I'll use AI to design the implementation of a medium sized, cross cutting feature. Review all the details, maybe iterate on just that. Then implement with Claude 4.7 Max - which runs slower, but does a better job. Then review the implementation, then have Codex GPT 5.5 xhigh fast review it - which almost always finds cor…

Have you tried telling claude to review with subagent? It too almost always finds corner cases (usually nothing serious, but most stuff is things that good coder would have thought of)

How does that work? Isn't writing code and reviewing code things that happen in serial?

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#420

Post by qaq »

bonoboTP wrote: post #293
jillesvangurp wrote: post #249

Regardless of what model you use, agentic coding tools are indeed pretty good at finding issues if you target them a bit. And they have no respect for their own code or any sense of shame. So, you can just point them at their own code with a new thread. Many AI models seem biased to cutting corners by default when generating code, even when you ask them not to. But a few simple follow up prompts can address that. Sim…

My problem is that it "finds issues" all the time and it never really ends. You go through the list, make a decision on how to go about it, give it back to the AI, it does the changes, you ask for issues again, there are now new issues in part due to the solutions from the previous fixes, now you again assess each issue and it's often valid but you have to ask yourself if it's worth fixing right now and whether the f…

I find that to not get into this doom loop is to make sure the solution is not overengineered in the first place. AI will pile on complexity to infinity unless you actively gate it.
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