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I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

frederickvanbrabant.com

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Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#411

Post by satvikpendem »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #388
satvikpendem wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deserving and having are two different things, that doesn't mean they can't be criticized either way. By the same logic bad devs and bad dev practices can also be criticized.

"They're bad PMs" does not meaningfully respond to people saying the world is full of bad PMs. They know. It was already given. Giving it again in response isn't engaging thoughtfully.

Then there is no point to me telling them further, because that wasn't really my point in the first place. Of course bad PMs exist, that is orthogonal to my argument.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#412

Post by satvikpendem »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #384
satvikpendem wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a strange response. By your logic you've met ~0% of developers too yet I assume you can distinguish good development practices from bad. I also mentioned good PMs which by definition review and write good tickets with a clear explanation of the problem and what they want the solution to be. If personally meeting millions of people is the epistemic standard you have to know something then I'm not sure how you kno…

> yet I assume you can distinguish good development practices from bad Uh. We're not talking about knowing what good is, which is completely irrelevant to anything in this thread. You made a claim without qualification about what it is more likely for PMs to do. I can't tell if you've lost the chain or are engaging in some kind of motte and bailey fallacy. Either way it's a bad sign for this conversation. I'm going t…

It is X with a given attribute of "good," not all X; thinking it is all members of X is what you are missing here. Most good PMs would review tickets, by definition. That bad ones do not is irrelevant to the argument, so it doesn't matter how many someone elses notice their PMs are bad, like yeah, no shit.

Anyway this is delving into pedantry deriving from the fact that you seem to have missed what I had said above, rather than engaging with what is going on with regards to PM productivity itself. Have a good day.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#413

Post by satvikpendem »

sarchertech wrote: post #356
satvikpendem wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I'm just talking about 90% of software which is basic CRUD, not complex systems or microcontroller programming. In that case it's likely that just a PM could build something with LLMs.

For basic CRUD we’ve had no code solutions that PMs could have been using for decades. The truth of the matter is that software starts as basic CRUD and then given time and users evolves into its own special snowflake. Every single system given enough time and users will become a “complex system”.

The difference is no code tools are not flexible in the same way LLMs are. As long as PMs can articulate those snowflake requirements to the LLM then it will happily build it.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#415

Post by bizzletk »

RaftPeople wrote: post #258
wise0wl wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen proposals for Product Managers to define those conditions themselves by speaking with the LLM. A continuing architectural diagram is constructed and graph is updated until all cases are covered and then the LLM writes the code, writes the validations, pushes to CI environments, runs tests, schedules prod deploy (by looking at company event schedule), gets CAB approval, deploys code, tests in prod, and fixes…

> I've seen proposals for Product Managers to define those conditions themselves by speaking with the LLM. But the LLM is not aware of how the business works and why, so someone needs to work with the business to extract the information. Typically it's not well documented.

> someone needs to work with the business to extract the information. Typically it's not well documented.

LLM extraction of the information from the Product Owner is becoming the way to overcome poorly-documented business context.

Non-technical folk are using things like `/grill-me` [0] to seed the LLM with the long-tail complexities that they didn't know they didn't know they needed to put out.

[0] https://www.aihero.dev/my-grill-me-skill-has-gone-viral

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#416

Post by wangii »

The idea of software developers' job is to translate specification into codes is dying. Now what I'm experimenting is to make my developers into competing project manager and developers are replaced by AI. I think the key advantages of developers, junior or senior, are the process + data oriented style of thinking, therefore way ahead of people from many other domain.

I told my developers: the day of making good money by sitting in front of computer and typing is long gone. Go to the clients' scenes and build the whole thing from scratch, with some assistant from sales and domain experts. Now you are the PM.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#417

Post by kawaiikouhai »

fastball wrote: post #280
siliconc0w wrote: post #276

People don't really understand that non-trivial software development isn't even 50% coding. The coding step is generally the 'easiest' part and given to Junior developers. In a large org most product changes span multiple systems and human operations. Seniors and even mid-level generally spend most of their figuring out how to shape the local priorities into a new arrangement of the existing cybernetic entity and the…

LLMs mostly only being code-writers was true a year ago, but it is not true now. Now they are tool-callers, which means a coding agent can effectively: run lints/typechecks/tests (and fix resulting errors), dig into observability platforms to identify root cause of isses (e.g. on Sentry or similar), run benchmarks to identify slow code / hot paths, keep systems up to date by reading migration docs (and applying them)…

uh. I think code-writing is just colloquial for "low level implementation details".

What he's pointing at is

1. LLMs have no social pull. Thus all the anti-AI outrage (LLMs cant defend themselves)

2. AI is shit at expert-lvl planning and higher level stuff (vision, architecture).

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#418

Post by xnx »

angarg12 wrote: post #189

> This exact thing is what software developers have been begging for since the beginning of the profession: Receiving a detailed outline of the problem and what the end result should look like. > This is often the part that slows down software development. Trying to figure out what a vague, title only, feature request actually means. But that is exactly what Software Engineering is!. It's 2026 and the notion that you…

If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far ... and fast go alone with AI.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#419

Post by sarreph »

shalmanese wrote: post #21

This is all substantially correct and gives us hints as to where to focus for AI to make the processes go faster. Eg: I had a product manager say to me that he envisions a future where any meeting with stakeholders that does not result in an interactive prototype by the end of the meeting would be considered a failure. This feels directionally correct to me. The other thing I expect to see is Vibecoding being the "Ex…

Pete Koomen wrote about this phenomenon (“horseless carriages” instead of “steam horses”) here:

https://koomen.dev/essays/horseless-carriages/

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