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California farmers to destroy 420k peach trees following Del Monte bankruptcy

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Re: California farmers to destroy 420k peach trees following Del Monte bankruptcy

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new crop will be grapes of wrath

The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all. Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up? And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the…

For those who might not understand the problem: deflation in combination with sticky prices makes it look like there is a glut of products for the supplier. Deflation also makes it harder to earn an income from work rather than sitting on your money, making it harder to buy foods.

Deflation is an opportunity cost to running a business. If you can earn x% from sitting on your money, then any business activity must earn more than x% before you consider the investment. The easiest way to raise the return on investment to match the opportunity cost is to sell at a higher price, but remember, you have deflation, so you can't pass on the cost to the consumers. Supply must shrink until the price is high enough to justify production again.

Reducing the supply of products also shrinks the demand for labor that is used in the production process, leading to more unemployment with sticky prices or reduced income with flexible prices. Reduced income means people have less money to buy products, which means producers see a lack of demand and reduce production even further. The downward spiral feeds itself.

Deflation is bad because it has acute symptoms. Inflation is the least bad option, because it's a manageable slow burn. Of course with acute symptoms you will see more action towards fixing the problem, whereas with a slow burn humans tend to drag it along forever.

Re: California farmers to destroy 420k peach trees following Del Monte bankruptcy

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you turn all them peaches into high proof alcohol they take up significantly less space...

Similarly, in 1790s America, farmers west of the Appalachians were growing plenty of corn, but because of bad roads the only feasible way to transport it to the much larger markets east of the mountains was as whiskey. When Alexander Hamilton imposed a tax on distilled spirits, the result was a "Whiskey Rebellion" in which George Washington himself rode out at the head of an army against other American citizens.

This type of trivia is why I found Bill Bryson’s “At Home” so entertaining. Tariff on windows? People cover them with bricks. Tariff on glass? Windows made of other materials. Tariff on… well, maybe stop designing tariffs if you can’t predict the outcome!

Re: California farmers to destroy 420k peach trees following Del Monte bankruptcy

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. That is what is missing in this discussion. If you want to cut down the trees, fine, but those people who profited should pay for it.

I always wonder where consumer surplus fits into arguments about profit. Although in this particular situation clearly the consumer surplus wasn't enough to keep consumers buying Del Monte products. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_surplus If we measure consumer surplus as a percentage, how would it compare to business profits as a percentage? Edit: Nobel laureate William Nordhaus studied the historical data of…

I'm not sure I understand your point? If you are private equity and do a leveraged buyout, the company is priced as if you could extract the current value of the company out of the acquisition. As if the company were a consumable basically, because that's how you're going to pay off the loan. If consuming the company requires mistreating customers (getting rid of consumer surplus), then that's what's going to happen. The way you're talking about this sounds like the cause is a lack of consumer surplus when that's just a symptom of a leveraged buyout.

Also Nordhaus being a Sveriges Riksbank price laureate tells you how silly and meaningless the Sveriges Riksbank price in economics is. His work on climate change is so bad it's embarassing.

Re: California farmers to destroy 420k peach trees following Del Monte bankruptcy

#414

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> Pretty much nobody nobody is dying of malnutrition in the US Well, nobody important. US rates of malnutrition: https://worldmetrics.org/malnutrition-in-the-united-states-s... Increase in deaths from malnutrition: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/12/29/why-are-m... > To be sure, we wouldn’t yet call it commonplace. But while it accounts for fewer than 1 in 100 deaths, its toll is rising so fast that it’s…

Am I reading the charts correctly that 20% of under-54s have "marginal, low or very low food security" with it being over 30% of under-14s? If so, focusing only on deaths is missing a huge part of this.

That looks right to me. Of course, the definition of food security can be disputed, but it seems like improving people's diets or access to quality food should be a priority.

> The source we used, a supplement to the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, has been canceled by the Agriculture Department. The upcoming release could be the last.

That doesn't sound encouraging.

Re: California farmers to destroy 420k peach trees following Del Monte bankruptcy

#415

People underestimate how difficult it is to seek buyers for the amount of produce we are talking about here. Farmers are specialists at growing things, not at moving them across great distances, marketing them to dozens small buyers and or starting up packing plants from scratch. They don't have enough trucks, people or packaging machines to move them around. Maybe, they can take some portion for local use. But the r…

You guys just didn't discover the beauty of fermentation and distillation, one can process rather large quantities and all you need is bunch of vats. Private smaller distilleries I believe work as a service in US too (as in you bring your stuff in and they process it professionally so no methanol inside).

Its quite popular in some parts of central Europe (say Czech republic) and resulting drink, in say 45% content of alcohol its fruity sweet and smooth and has absolutely nothing to do with cheap flavored chemical crap from potato/sugar beet one can buy in shops.

Re: California farmers to destroy 420k peach trees following Del Monte bankruptcy

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do canned peaches cause Alzheimer’s?

I'm gonna make a guess that it's the long debunked hypothesis that aluminum cookware and cans are linked to Alzheimers. As it turned out, aluminum poisoning can cause dementia-like symptoms, but you can't get aluminum poisoning from cookware or cans.

Aren't most food cans made of steel, not aluminum?

Re: California farmers to destroy 420k peach trees following Del Monte bankruptcy

#417

People underestimate how difficult it is to seek buyers for the amount of produce we are talking about here. Farmers are specialists at growing things, not at moving them across great distances, marketing them to dozens small buyers and or starting up packing plants from scratch. They don't have enough trucks, people or packaging machines to move them around. Maybe, they can take some portion for local use. But the r…

Better idea:

1. Find a random large, barren public land nearby

2. Dump all fruit there.

3. Wait 15 years

4. New enchanted forest available for public use [1]

[1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/costa-rica-let-jui...

Re: California farmers to destroy 420k peach trees following Del Monte bankruptcy

#418
post #368
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: Carbs are not "unhealthy". That's a wildly inaccurate and broad thing to say. Excess consumption of processed and/or "unhealthy" carbs is unhealthy. Excess consumption of protein is also unhealthy. Same with fiber. I'm not commenting on anything else, just the fact that "carbs are recognized now as seriously unhealthy" is absolutely untrue.

> Same with fiber. Really? The only issues arising from fiber that I've heard of is constipation, and that's only if diet suddenly changes and large amounts of fiber are introduced to a digestive system unused to it. AFAIK most people don't even get a tenth of what they should in terms of fiber.

It also depends on just what kind of fiber. Bran flakes are like the sovereign cure for constipation.

Re: California farmers to destroy 420k peach trees following Del Monte bankruptcy

#419
post #370
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A bunch of rotten fruit is _exceptionally valuable_ > right now I'm in a position where I could really use truckloads of rotten, inedible peaches if I could get them for free. These two statements contradict each other. If you are pushing to get something for free (and seems like you wouldn't pay for them, or wouldn't pay much for them, instead opting to do without), then they are absolutely not exceptionally valua…

I would pay for it - I meant this in the context that people here are getting paid to destroy value. Also don't get the downvotes, improving soil efficiently in large quantities is an interesting question a lot of tech people (being city people) never have to care about.

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Re: California farmers to destroy 420k peach trees following Del Monte bankruptcy

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Del Monte went out of business because there wasn't enough demand for the peaches They appear to have gone out of business because of massive debt from a leveraged buyout, combined with other issues. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/when-private-equity-overcooke...

Somebody really good at the economy needs to explain to me how a PE firm buys a company using the company it’s buying as collateral for that financing, and then somehow, that acquired company is the entity that debt is attached to. Imagine if us poors could buy a Hummer EV financed against itself and then the truck had to self-drive for uber to pay its own payment, under penalty of being put in a crusher. Oh and you…

But that’s exactly what happens when someone buys a Hummer with an auto loan?

You put 10% down (say $10,000) and the bank lends you $90,000 based on the lien they have on the hummer.

No different than a leveraged buyout - PE firm buys a company with cash down and takes on debt for the rest of the purchase using the assets of the company as collateral.

It makes a lot more sense if you think of it in steps - negotiate buyout agreement with owners, close purchase with cash and take ownership, then as CEO have the company take on debt and use the loan proceeds to close the deal.

Just like if you went to a dealership and negotiated a deal where you purchased the hummer for $10k, they transfer ownership to you, then you go to the bank and get a loan using vehicle as collateral then pay the dealership the loan proceeds to close the deal.

Where I think you’re confused is the “how do they take a loan on an asset they don’t own?”. The answer is they don’t. It’s multiple steps and they own the company they use as collateral.

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