Live data from Hacker News

After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

arstechnica.com

411–420 of 510 posts

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#411
This looks like a blame allocation exercise to me.

The seniors will now be directly responsible for all the AI slop that goes in. But how can they possibly properly review reams of code to a sufficient degree they can personally vouch for it?

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#413
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The business leaders do not care about this yet. I think a lot of people think we already have more Seniors than we will need in the next 5-10 years. Also - the definition of Senior will change, and a lot of current Seniors will not transition, while plenty of Juniors that put in a lot of time using code agents will transition.

>while plenty of Juniors that put in a lot of time using code agents will transition. But will they? I'm not at all convinced that babysitting an AI churning out volumes of code you don't understand will help you acquire the knowledge to understand and debug it.

Some will, some will not; hiring interviews and promotion committees will take care of the rest.

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#414
post #258

I think the deeper need is a "self-review" flow. People push AI-reviewed code like they wrote it. In the past, "wrote it" implies "reviewed it." With AI, that's no longer true. I advocate for GitHub and other code review systems to add a "Require self-review" option, where people must attest that they reviewed and approved their own code. This change might seem symbolic, but it clearly sets workflows and expectations…

Heck, doing a self review when you wrote the code catches stuff like forgetting debug prints.

Self review should also include adding guiding comments for other reviewers.

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#416

I think the deeper need is a "self-review" flow. People push AI-reviewed code like they wrote it. In the past, "wrote it" implies "reviewed it." With AI, that's no longer true. I advocate for GitHub and other code review systems to add a "Require self-review" option, where people must attest that they reviewed and approved their own code. This change might seem symbolic, but it clearly sets workflows and expectations…

Yes, underthinking is rampant. Glancing at "AI" output is not reviewing code: you have to grok it (in the Heinlein sense) in order to treat it as your own.

You have to grok it, and not just Grok it.

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#417
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Create conflicting metrics for performance, push credit up and responsibility down, punish everyone below you for not meeting the double standards This resonates with my experience. The only thing you forgot is that you can also use the 12^H^H 14 leadership principles to argue whatever you want (and then the opposite of what you argued last month, still using the same leadership principles).

Got a project finished early? Well, you didn't insist on the highest standards. Made sure things were held to a high standard? Well, you weren't biased for action. Were you a knowledge source for the entire team? Well, you weren't learning and being curious. Did you ask a lot of questions to learn everything? Well, then you weren't "are right a lot". Did you think big and come up with an architecture that saved Amazo…

Very nice, I can imagine someone turning it into a little satirical webpage, which implements a kind of decision tree:

1. Choose from a set of challenge types (e.g. meeting a deadline, reliability)

2. Choose whether the challenge was "met" or "failed".

3. Choose whether you want to make the person look good or bad, by following/ignoring a principle.

4. Results: A list of relevant principles with short rationalizations.

I'm almost tempted to try, except perhaps I should treasure my ignorance.

If a tool like that gets popular enough that most employees are using it for office-politics, it might even start to deflate the whole Leadership Principles thing.

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#419
In case it isn’t completely obvious from this, it is indeed hellish to work there. Most of AWS has a 2 reviewer requirement. If AI is writing most of the code (and it is because most Amazon code is copypasta boilerplate) you need 3 developers to sign off to ship anything. But of course due to headcount attrition, managers have ~1.5 developers to a project. Meanwhile the L8 manager is doing nothing except stack ranking each level of engineers according to number of commits merged & customer facing features shipped, and firing 15% of the bottom at the end of each year. There is no notion of subject matter expertise or technical depth, theyre happy to replace whoever with fresh-grads (theyre all just cogs anyway right!). Between that and voluntary departures, teams having 80-100% turnover every 5 years is basically par.

Also while this is happening most developers are getting constantly hammered by operational issues and critical security tasks because 1) the legacy toolchain imports 6 different language package ecosystems and 2)no one ever pays down tech debt in legacy code until its a high severity ticket count in a KPI dashboard visible to the senior management.

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Are you completely missing the point of the submission no, and that's what people are noting: the headline deliberately tries to blow this up into a big deal. When did you last see the HN post about Amazon's mandatory meeting to discuss a human-caused outage, or a post mortem? It's not because they don't happen...

> the headline deliberately tries to blow this up into a big deal I do not understand how “company that runs half the internet has had major recent outages and now explicitly names lax/non-existent LLM usage guidelines as a major reason” can possibly not be a big deal in the midst of an industry-wide hype wave over how the world’s biggest companies now run agent teams shipping 150 pull requests an hour. The chain of…

The subject of the media coverage is not AWS, it is a peer organization to AWS that runs using significant amounts of non-AWS infrastructure. They are both part of an umbrella called Amazon but are not at all the same thing.

Maybe your CoT-level reasoning isn’t so robust.

Post reply on HN