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Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

gitlab.redox-os.org

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Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#411

Post by eschaton »

orf wrote: post #181
jacquesm wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can't. See, that's where you are just wrong: when you don't respect the boundaries an open source project sets that you want to contribute to then you are a net negative. Restricting this is their right, and it is not for you to attempt to overrule that right. Besides the fact that you do not oversee the consequences it also makes you an asshole. They're not asking for you to write standing on your head, they…

They are asking me to author my contributions in a way that they approve of. The essence of the request is the same as asking someone to author them whilst standing on their head. Except they don’t, won’t and can’t control that: the very request is insulting. I’ll make a change any way I choose, upright, sideways, using AI. My choice. Not theirs. Their choice is to accept it or reject it based purely on the change it…

If you’re going to lie and say there was no LLM involved, what else are you going to lie about? Copying code from another codebase with incompatible license terms, perhaps?

I would say people should be wary of any contributions whatsoever from a filthy fucking liar.

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#412

Post by eschaton »

butILoveLife wrote: post #389
hananova wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Projects that used to take months still take months. LLM’s are only useful for throwaway low-quality slop. Perhaps some times the sloperator will get lucky and the end result isn’t something that will bite them in the ass. But the rest of us foresee a mountain of tech debt that will come knocking one day.

This is like 2 months outdated.

[flagged]

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#413

Post by [deleted] »

eschaton wrote: post #411
orf wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are asking me to author my contributions in a way that they approve of. The essence of the request is the same as asking someone to author them whilst standing on their head. Except they don’t, won’t and can’t control that: the very request is insulting. I’ll make a change any way I choose, upright, sideways, using AI. My choice. Not theirs. Their choice is to accept it or reject it based purely on the change it…

If you’re going to lie and say there was no LLM involved, what else are you going to lie about? Copying code from another codebase with incompatible license terms, perhaps? I would say people should be wary of any contributions whatsoever from a filthy fucking liar.

[deleted]

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#414

Post by eschaton »

swiftcoder wrote: post #69
lifis wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only 4 successful general purpose production OSes (GNU/Linux, Android/Linux, Windows, OS X/iOS) and only one of those made by the open source community (GNU/Linux). And a new OS needs to be significantly better than those to overcome the switching costs.

> There are only 4 successful general purpose production OSes Feel like you are using a very narrow definition of "success" here. Is BSD not successful? It is deployed on 10s of millions of routers/firewalls/etc in addition to being the ancestor of both modern MacOS and PlaystationOS...

What about IBM i and z/OS, and Stratus VOS, and Burroughs MCP, and Tandem GUARDIAN, and VxWorks and OS-9 and… These all not only still exist but run huge transaction volume (for the mainframe and minicomputer systems) and run a huge amount of embedded systems (for the embedded OSes).

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#415

Post by orf »

eschaton wrote: post #411
orf wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are asking me to author my contributions in a way that they approve of. The essence of the request is the same as asking someone to author them whilst standing on their head. Except they don’t, won’t and can’t control that: the very request is insulting. I’ll make a change any way I choose, upright, sideways, using AI. My choice. Not theirs. Their choice is to accept it or reject it based purely on the change it…

If you’re going to lie and say there was no LLM involved, what else are you going to lie about? Copying code from another codebase with incompatible license terms, perhaps? I would say people should be wary of any contributions whatsoever from a filthy fucking liar.

> what else are you going to lie about?

Nothing? Everything? Does it fucking matter? Assigning trust across a boundary like this is stupid, and that’s my point.

Oh, would you just accept my blatantly, verbatim copied-from-another-codebase-and-relicensed PR just because I said “I solemnly swear this is not blatantly, verbatim copied from another codebase and relicensed”?

That’s on you for stupidly assigning any trust to the author of the change. It’s the internet: nobody knows you’re a dog.

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#416

Post by dakolli »

jacquesm wrote: post #151
electrosphere wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went into software because I like building things and coming up with solid solutions to business problems that are of use to society. I would not describe myself with "love to code". It's a means to an end to pay bills and have a meaningful career. I think of myself more like a carpenter or craftsman. I used a coding agent for the majority of my current project and I still got the "build stuff" itch scratched becau…

> I think of myself more like a carpenter or craftsman. > I used a coding agent for the majority of my current project and I still got the "build stuff" itch scratched because Engineers are still responsible for the output and they are needed to interface between technical teams, UX, business people etc Then you are the opposite of a carpenter or a craftsman, no matter what you think about it yourself.

Yeah could you imagine a project manager saying they are like a carpenter or a craftsman lmfao

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#417

Post by dakolli »

wccrawford wrote: post #152
electrosphere wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went into software because I like building things and coming up with solid solutions to business problems that are of use to society. I would not describe myself with "love to code". It's a means to an end to pay bills and have a meaningful career. I think of myself more like a carpenter or craftsman. I used a coding agent for the majority of my current project and I still got the "build stuff" itch scratched becau…

I went into software because I love to code . And yet, I find a coding agent makes it even more fun. I spend less time working on the boilerplate crap that I hate, and a lot less time searching Google and trying to make sense of a dozen half-arsed StackOverflow posts that don't quite answer my question. I just went through that yesterday with Unity. I did all the leg work to figure out why something didn't work like…

Cool you had it do something for you, this isn't building or learning no matter what you tell yourself. Your brain is going to atrophy. The process of building can be frustrating, so what, so is training for a marathon or anything rewarding in life.

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#418

Post by eschaton »

orf wrote: post #415
eschaton wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re going to lie and say there was no LLM involved, what else are you going to lie about? Copying code from another codebase with incompatible license terms, perhaps? I would say people should be wary of any contributions whatsoever from a filthy fucking liar.

> what else are you going to lie about? Nothing? Everything? Does it fucking matter? Assigning trust across a boundary like this is stupid, and that’s my point. Oh, would you just accept my blatantly, verbatim copied-from-another-codebase-and-relicensed PR just because I said “I solemnly swear this is not blatantly, verbatim copied from another codebase and relicensed”? That’s on you for stupidly assigning any trust…

[flagged]

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#419

Post by dakolli »

jplusequalt wrote: post #371
slibhb wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The person who showed their work on the math test is 9/10 times is doing better in life than the person that only knew how to use a calculator Sure but once you learn long multiplication/division algorithms by hand there's not much point in using them. By high school everyone is using a calculator. > Just like when people started losing their ability to navigate without a GPS/Maps app Are you suggesting people shou…

>I don't think "LLMs making us dumber" is a real concern. Yes, people will lose some skills. Before calculators, adults were probably way better at doing arithmetic. But it's a problem of scale. Calculators are very specific tools. If you are trying to run a computation of some arithmetic/algebraic expression, then they are a great tool. But they're not going to get you far if you need help understanding how to file…

Yeah, I agree. However, people use llms for the same reason people drive 3 blocks to a store rather than walk. Laziness and convenience. They simply don't care if their leg muscles atrophy. However, I think people aren't taking into account how much more important your thinking "muscles" are and its way more consequential to let those atrophy.

Everyone is vulnerable to the allure of taking shortcuts in life, but I've learned over the years that there is no free lunch. This is going too be quite an expensive trade off for many.

Re: Redox OS has adopted a Certificate of Origin policy and a strict no-LLM policy

#420

Post by dakolli »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #289
dakolli wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you rely on llms, you're simply not going to make it. The person who showed their work on the math test is 9/10 times is doing better in life than the person that only knew how to use a calculator. Now how do we think things are going to turn out for the person that doesn't even think they need to learn how to use a calculator. Just like when people started losing their ability to navigate without a GPS/Maps app,…

when i was in school we were graded (yes, actually given a letter grade) on our handwriting. mine was pretty terrible. i think i’m doing alright now.

lmao, this response kinda proves my point.. Have you already lost your ability to think brother?
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