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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#411

Post by Poacher5 »

baq wrote: post #348
alpinisme wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live June sunrise (with DST) is 5:11am and sunset is 8:21pm (a city on the American east coast). I just can’t imagine a majority of people would want 4:11 rising and 7:21 setting.

Clock is a social contract. China has just one time zone and it seems to work fine.

There's a noticeable increase in sleep disorders and related conditions in the far west of the single time zone [0]. I think when it's on the order of a single hour's shift for daylight savings the effects are pretty negligible but they are measurable.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY9mXPcloaM

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#412

Post by avadodin »

pkulak wrote: post #219
jorvi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

That's what everyone says. But it turns out people hate spending their morning in darkness for more light at night. Which makes perfect sense: https://washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-... > the inkling of light they get during their winter commute It's not an inkling. Unless you roll out of bed and instantly onto your commute, you're getting natural sunlight through all your windows for hours every…

I only lived under the saving regime for a few years and I don't remember it being particularly bad.

I like how the light signals the shift from angst season to normal season, though.

I'd rather not have a clock and farm from sunrise to sunset, to be honest.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#413

Post by jcarrano »

jorvi wrote: post #143
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

100% agree. I used to watch the sun rise over the river from the train during my commute. It was worth having to wake up when it was still dark.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#414

Post by seanalltogether »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #400
geon wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the better question is: If people want to go to work an hour earlier, why the F do they need to change the clock for that? Just leave the house at 6 instead of 7. Changing the clock around is insane.

A lot of people must schedule their day around school hours. You can't decide those.

And yet I guarantee that with permanent DST, they will start pushing school start times later and later in the morning, then they're all right back to where they started.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#415

Post by Acinyx »

tavavex wrote: post #371
gwerbin wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't agree with this at all. I want the light when I'm getting up in the morning. When I'm coming home from work it's the end of the day: I'm tired, I'm hustling home to do errands or chores or make dinner, I'm probably going to spend that time inside anyway because that's where the things that I need to get done are, and if it it's going to be cold and windy, it's going to be cold and windy in the evening. I…

It's weird, my opinion is the exact opposite from yours, but for the same reasons. When it's the morning, I haven't had the time to get tired yet. So I don't care yet, I don't require the sunlight at that time of the day. And it's always a better feeling when there's only a bit of darkness left before sunrise, when the alternative is feeling like the day was wasted as you step outside and it's already night out. Depe…

Same here at 52 degrees, the evenings feel so much more useful when the sun is out than in winter when it is dark, an hour extra sun would be massive.

So I am wondering what the percentages for these preferences are, is t 50-50 split or is one dominant? You'll piss off part of the population any chocie you make nayway, but at least in the European (non-representative) polls they found 80% don't want the twice-yearly switch, so it would be progress anyway?

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#416

Post by mongol »

kmm wrote: post #177
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

Everytime people extoll the virtues of high noon, I ask the same question: why does it matter if the sun reaches it highest point near 12 o' clock? You're awake for 4-6 hours before 12, and you remain awake for 10-12 hours after it. Noon isn't the middle of the day for nearly anyone in the western world. I understand the argument for having an early sunset, clearly having sunlight when you're awake has an effect. But…

To me it feels like redefining the meter to make it better for some particular purpose. For example, it is defined as the distance light travels in 1/299792458th of a second. Why not make it an even 300000000? Or make it perfect to measure say the width of train tracks?

There is value to stick to a historical tradition which is easy to reason about. I like the connection standard time has to the course of the sun. It makes a lot of sense. It serves as a reference. Time does not say when you need to do something. It is up to you and the people around you. Time is just the way you communicate about it

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#417

Post by hilbert42 »

edoceo wrote: post #354
djmips wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just start school later?

I've heard it's so parents can get the kids to school at 0800 and then start job a 0900. But why school is out at 1500 and job at 1700 is a mystery.

"But why school is out at 1500 and job at 1700 is a mystery."

Same here. And I've never figured out why DST fades the curtains.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#418

Post by kelseydh »

pkulak wrote: post #219
jorvi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

That's what everyone says. But it turns out people hate spending their morning in darkness for more light at night. Which makes perfect sense: https://washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-... > the inkling of light they get during their winter commute It's not an inkling. Unless you roll out of bed and instantly onto your commute, you're getting natural sunlight through all your windows for hours every…

One of the most depressing days of the year in B.C. is when daylight savings ends, and clocks are switched back an hour in November. The sun goes from setting at ~6pm to ~5pm, and you officially end work with it dark out. I'm very happy we are switching to permanent daylight time.

There's nothing more glorious than those late summer solstice sunsets w/ daylight time, where the sun doesn't set until 10pm. Great for festivals and planning outdoor activities with friends.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#419

Post by kelseydh »

edoceo wrote: post #354
djmips wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just start school later?

I've heard it's so parents can get the kids to school at 0800 and then start job a 0900. But why school is out at 1500 and job at 1700 is a mystery.

School ends at 3pm so that the teachers, who work a 9-5 like you, get two hours after class to grade homework and prepare lessons for the next school day.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#420

Post by mongol »

rkomorn wrote: post #362
Reason077 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”Kids walking, biking, and being driven to school in mornings in darkness ... that's also what permanent DST gives us.” Can’t schools just open 60 (or 30) minutes later if this is a problem? ie: school has winter hours where class starts at 9AM instead of 8:30AM?

I don't get how having "random" things change opening hours is any better than changing clocks. I'm not a parent, but I can imagine that if some of my schedule had to change by 30 minutes some months out of the year, I'd find it more inconvenient. What if school starts/ends at a different time but my job does not? What if I have a standing appointment at a business that keeps its hours year round that now conflicts w…

It is completely obvious to me. There is only one uniform time, and thousands of arguments for what is a good time to do this or that. Reschedule things to work better. Don't force everything else according to some most important thing
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