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The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

cnn.com

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Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#411

Post by xdennis »

dash2 wrote: post #150
TheAlchemist wrote: post #105

Regardless of how it ends, and it can go both ways, we're witnessing history here. This feels like a much bigger development than Russia-Ukraine. Iran is a major partner for Russia and China, mostly for military technology and oil. Hope it's not a start of WW3.

Depends how you count “big”. Russia-Ukraine has had about 1 million deaths, and has completely changed how Europe thinks about security- it’s hardly a sideshow. Then again, not much territory has changed hands and there has been no regime change yet.

> Russia-Ukraine has had about 1 million deaths

I wish... But estimates say between 230,000 and 468,500 dead orcs.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#412

Post by anonymous_user9 »

shevy-java wrote: post #357
papaver-somnamb wrote: post #328

I recall someone (name escapes me at the moment) defining WW3 as ignition in 5 flashpoints between belligerent groupings: - Eastern Africa esp. Sudan, which we all nearly universally ignore - Israel Iran - Russia and a neighbor which we know today is Ukraine - Pakistan Afghanistan India - China Taiwan Plus Plus Attributes that distinguish WW3 from previous world wars were IIRC: Contained conflagration, short targeted…

First, I don't think this leads to WW3 although I would agree with you that there is a general global tendency towards escalation. Still, I think we can not call this WW3 and I am not 100% certain this is a build-up to WW3 either. As for North Korea: I think the situation is not solely about North Korea itself but China. China is kind of acting as protective proxy here. I don't see North Korea as primary problem to t…

> So Europeans need a nuclear arsenal, but european politicians are totally lame

Are France's 240 submarines-launched thermonuclear ballistic missiles not adequate? Despite the need for security, nuclear proliferation is extremely bad. It seems ideal for France continue to maintain their nuclear weapons while the rest of Europe keeps their hands clean.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#413

Post by JumpCrisscross »

papaver-somnamb wrote: post #328

I recall someone (name escapes me at the moment) defining WW3 as ignition in 5 flashpoints between belligerent groupings: - Eastern Africa esp. Sudan, which we all nearly universally ignore - Israel Iran - Russia and a neighbor which we know today is Ukraine - Pakistan Afghanistan India - China Taiwan Plus Plus Attributes that distinguish WW3 from previous world wars were IIRC: Contained conflagration, short targeted…

> Attributes that distinguish WW3 from previous world wars were IIRC

You're missing the commonalities, what defined world wars: the full might of industrial economies being dedicated to military campaigns.

World War II's theatres' were incoherent–the Axis interests in e.g. China and the Pacific had basically zero stragegic overlap with Europe and North Africa. (The only parties having to consider a unified theatre being the USSR and USA.) But the entire economic surplus of Europe, Asia and North America was basically dedicated to (or extracted towards) making things that were reasonably expected to be destroyed within the year.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#415

Post by AbstractH24 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #396

Nothing like a war to boost your popularity just before the elections

Only I’m not exactly sure what constituency will support this war.

He wasn’t even smart enough to leave America open to attack, manufacture a pretext, and rally people around the flag like 9/11

Heck, there was even a better case in Korea & Vietnam. Even Venezuela. What’s the case this is America’s problem?

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#416

Post by IAmGraydon »

vkou wrote: post #337
swingboy wrote: post #330

A mere 8 months ago, Trump and his cronies were saying that Iran’s nuclear program was “totally obliterated” every chance they got.

16 months ago, he was campaigning on no new wars. Presumably, what he meant was 'No, new wars!'

I don’t know why anyone even bothers with this anymore. Literally every single word that comes out of his mouth is a lie. It’s actually staggering to think about. It’s like he is incapable of doing anything that right, correct, or true.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#417

Post by _heimdall »

sega_sai wrote: post #363

The take home message from this is that the only way for any country to be secure is to have nuclear weapons.

How does that factor in here right now? We haven't used or threatened to use nukes, and at least the public case made is in part that Iran is trying to get nukes and shouldn't.

I say "public case" specifically here, I don't buy that justification but it is still the one being used.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#419

Post by wewxjfq »

makingstuffs wrote: post #282

I really do not even want to understand the mental gymnastics which one has to undertake to justify the actions of the US and Israel in recent years. Nor do I even know how to begin to grasp the enablement displayed by Europe as a whole. People constantly cite China’s “human rights abuses” (which seem to pale in comparison to all this) and rightly so, but continue to enable this blood thirsty and power hungry tag tea…

Very level headed and empathetic to go and claim that 50 countries just lost their right to criticize China because US and Israel are fighting Iran. Trolls having their priorities straight!

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#420

Post by xg15 »

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wrote: post #394
epolanski wrote: post #351

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

People still believe October 7th attacks weren't intentionally allowed? There is a lot of legitimate debate on this topic as the security failures are unusual and are still officially being discussed in Israel.

I see no "smoking gun" for this yet, but yeah, there are a lot of indicators, such as alarm calls by military observers being ignored beforehand, IDF units having been moved from the Gaza envelope to the West Bank before, etc.

Of course, Netanyahu could counter those rumors by establishing a state commission if inquiry, but instead he fights tooth and nail to prevent this from happening...

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