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France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

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Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#411
post #180

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Refreshing and impressive indeed. I wish other governments did this, esp those that are larger / have a reasonably large tech scene (e.g. Northern Europe, Nordic, AUS, Japan, Canada, Germany, India, etc). It's time governments realize(d) that IT sector is as strategic as the Defense sector, which is usually/always given preferential treatment (e.g. Airbus, etc) and that they don;t have to be beholden to American tech…

Germany has https://www.opendesk.eu/de and https://www.sovereign.tech/programs/fund . both mentioned on HN

Have Germany supplanted office for these alternatives?

It’s super cool they exist, if they’re not used… I mean, it’s still super cool they exist?

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#413
post #314
post #286

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Why would a private company deciding to release a Linux version of their product signal a government's follow-through? As far as I can tell, there is no current connection between Solidworks and the French government.

Solidworks is produced by a company that is owned by the Dassault Group. There is always a connection between the military industrial complex of a nation and the state. If France feels that it is an existential threat they will not let the design and maintence of their weapons be dependent on an operating system produced by a company based out of a country that has threatened them. I'm not saying that this will happe…

500k and 3 really smart people can get solidworks running under wine in a few months. The barrier of entry seems pretty low.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#414
post #376

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wow it reminds me of Microsoft Access, a great piece of software in terms of rapidly building an application! Does grist have forms?

Form support is touted on the homepage: https://www.getgrist.com/forms/ For what it's worth, which isn't much because this is probably outdated: I remember trying grist a few years ago and leaving mildly unimpressed with form support (I think because I was hoping to have image upload in the forms and that wasn't supported yet).

Grist forms support uploads since 2025 https://github.com/gristlabs/grist-core/pull/1655

Since it is relevant here: support for uploads was code written by a French contributor, and reviewed by a developer working for the French gov (ANCT/DINUM) and a developer working for Grist Labs. Grist Labs has since maintained and improved on it. The forms feature itself was inspired by an integration built by Camille Legeron at ANCT.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#415

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I am French. When I look at the EU I see great potentials but the effect is a huge bureaucratic mess that is advantageous for everyone involved. About 25% of EU parliament parties are against EU. Theyt are paid by the EU to tell how much they hate this institution. There are no two countries in the EU who are aligned. Some of them are not completely out of synch (mostly the Nordics), some are in schizophrenia mode (P…

> (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia mostly) where they eat most of the EU funds "Eat" the funds? whaat? Is EU really viewed as some kind of charity to the ungrateful "easterners" in France? does surrendering their market and massively adapting and opening their economies to the dominant western EU economies completely goes unnoticed in this context? The provision of cheap educated workforce to the western companies also nev…

> Is EU really viewed as some kind of charity to the ungrateful "easterners" in France?

Poland spending 9.1 B€, revenue 7.8 B€ → net beneficiary (1.3 B€)

France spending 16.4 B€, revenue 24.2 B€ → net contributor (7.8 B€)

> does surrendering their market and massively adapting and opening their economies to the dominant western EU economies completely goes unnoticed in this context?

What planes does LOT use? Boeing? What military aircraft? American. Who broke the contract on European helicopters to get American ones?

The US is not even in the top 5 investors in Poland, all are from the EU.

Who is going to go ahead for the nuclear umbrella? France, probably, not the US.

If Poland were suddenly not in the EU would that be a major issue for the EU or Poland?

Now, to be crystal clear: I love Poland. I travel there often, have very close friends and the country is magnificent. The education is top-notch, the culture as well. I am with all my heart with the progressive parties and not some bozos from PiS or the other party I forgot with the leader who looks like mentally ill (the one who was running with the fire extinguisher in the parliament or harassed a pro-abortion doctor).

But since we are talking money then let's not get emotional. And I am emotional when it comes to this particular country and of course mine - France.

I am all for Poland (and other countries) to be a true member of the EU, which brings some obligations as well. Including an adhesion of its population through the voting results. For this to talk to the general populations in the net contributor basket who will ultimately vote as well.

> The provision of cheap educated workforce to the western companies also never happened?

Yes it did. It is not "cheap" educated workforces because they are paid the same when in France (or other countries) and bring an extremely good education and cultural background. I know something about that.

It is a superbly educated workforce.

> BTW, Poland probably has the most pro-EU population with a full awareness that soon we will likely become a net payer

This is not reflected in the 2021-2017 EU budget but ok, maybe. Good luck with that (and I am saying this without any sarcasm, I really wish Poland to get as great as possible)

> I am also starting to be convinced that this patronizing attitude from the "real" Europeans that is starting to drive EU skepticism in the eastern flank. peace.

What our former president said (Chirac) about the "two speed Europe" is disgusting. There are no "real" Europeans. There are just political trends (fueled by votes) that adhere more or less to the EU as a whole and commit accordingly. Tusk was one of these people when he was in the EU Commission, but the wave seems to be diminishing.

> peace

Yes.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been my personal experience, but colleagues on Linux are continually fighting it.

I gave up on the native Zoom client on Linux right away, it was completely broken. It worked well enough on a browser to get through the project though. Same with Teams, the video calls work fine on a browser. You just can't use any background pictures or effects.

> You just can't use any background pictures or effects.

Thanksfully it is fairly easy to present a virtual webcam that is a composition of what your real physical webcam is showing and whatever background you want.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#417
post #401
post #391

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I have used at least Skype, Meet/Chat, Slack, Teams and Discord, plus some other niche apps I can’t remember. In Discord, I like the ability to share user screens concurrently and the way you can just jump on a channel and have an impromptu meeting without much ceremony. But I have seen only one case of Discord in a corporate environment. My use cases are simple, video calls, screen sharing, file sharing and chat wit…

Your claim that "if it was consistently bad, it would have been replaced already" just... totally misunderstands how enterprise software decisions work, even in organisations where people value their time. Switching costs are enormous. Your organisation has Teams integrated with your Office 365 licensing, which means you're already paying for it. Replacing it with Slack means paying $8-12 per user per month on top of…

Well said.

> Replacing it with Slack means paying $8-12 per user per month on top of your existing Office costs, because you still need Outlook, Word, Excel, and SharePoint. For a 500-person company, that's an additional $48,000-72,000 annually for a tool that overlaps with something you've already paid for.

If only in this calculation they'd factor in how much time each employee wastes because of Teams glitches…

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#418
post #261

Makes sense. This software dependency that Europe has on the USA is very, very bad - no just with regards to Zoom, but literally anything. The US corporations are forced by law to always prioritize whoever represents the current US government, and the current US government will remain hostile as long as it is in charge; but even afterwards it is quite logical to assume that any follow-up government will prioritize US…

> The US corporations are forced by law to always prioritize whoever represents the current US government Where do you get your information from? This is just plainly false. Heck, it runs afoul of the Constitution, so even if the government were to try something, it'd be smacked down real fast.

I think it’s more accurate to say that US corporations are subject to US law. Indeed there are no laws that say anything about corporations prioritizing the party in power, but they often do as matter course.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because it is in fact the messaging which is the problem, not racism or sexism Yes, of course, the reason Republican voters embrace the concept of deplorable is because the Dems are mean to them. That totally makes them noble and not in fact deplorable. > It is the messaging of the Democrats that pushed so many people into Trump's arms He got less than 50% of the vote, if the Dems are pushing so many people to Trum…

> Yes, of course, the reason Republican voters embrace the concept of deplorable is because the Dems are mean to them. That totally makes them noble and not in fact deplorable. I don't think anyone ever embraces being called deplorable, that seems like a strange take. If anything, being called deplorable would just make someone dislike the name-caller. Don't take my word for it, this is behavior exhibited by children…

I've got a number of right wing acquaintances, they 100% call themselves deplorable. And yes, in response to Hillary's use of the term. Even though she didn't call everyone on the right a deplorable, this did not stop them from running with it.

And they do embrace it. To the point where they say 'dirka dirka' when the topic of our Indian managers comes up (never mind that the original movie reference was about Arabs, but whatever), and making comments about women in positions of authority at the company. That's in addition to the comments about trans people.

Hard to say whether that attitude came first or second. And while I can definitely appreciate that nobody wants to be looked down on, there is no requirement that you respond to that by doing that which you are accused of.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#420

Worth pointing out: France is not adopting existing open source software, they're building their own software and releasing it under the MIT licence. Most of it (or all of it?) is Django backend + React frontend (using a custom-built UI kit). Home page for the entire suite (in French) with some screenshots: https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/ Code bases are on GitHub and they use English there: https://github.com/suit…

I work at Grist, the "tableur collaboratif" (collaborative spreadsheet) listed on the La Suite homepage. We're in the interesting situation of being both a NYC-based company, and open source software the French gov has adopted and is helping to develop. Grist is mostly a node backend. So it is a complicated story. The key is having code the gov can review and trust and run it on sovereign infrastructure. Grist https:…

Kudos, Grist is great ! Super features, quite seamless only the UI could be more modern (or user stylesheet customizable) if you get to it.
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