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Outlawed by Amazon DRM

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Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#411

Post by losvedir »

hobbes wrote: post #115
losvedir wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where's your evidence to the contrary? Oh, I don't know. Maybe when he visited the website of one of the largest retailers in the world, broke out his saved credit card like usual, and clicked the gigantic "Buy now with 1-Click" button? I would love for this to get tested in court. Has it? My understanding (I'm not a lawyer, but heard this from a lawyer) is that the purpose of, say, signing a release form before pl…

Well, good luck with the "1-click" button defense. heh. I agree that Amazon could be a LOT more open and clear about what it is that changes hands (ie some "rights") when we pay "applicable fees". But, it took me the best part of 10 seconds to find the license agreement. And, once found, couldn't be clearer.

It wasn't the "1-click" part of the button that was the defense, it was the "Buy with" part. That is, when you actually click the button, it's telling you that are buying it.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#412

Post by dredmorbius »

_delirium wrote: post #328
smacktoward wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The user had no copyright claim on that work, but he/she did have a reasonable expectation that a "purchased" good was hers to dispose of as she saw fit after completion of the sale, within the confines of the law. What people are objecting to is Amazon's redefinition of the rights of the seller at the expense of the rights of the buyer.

It's also interesting how similar this is to the previous round, a century ago: the first-sale doctrine arose precisely to put an end to shenanigans publishers were trying to pull where they claimed they were only "licensing" a copy of the text to the person who purchased the dead tree. It reasserted the property rights of the purchaser, which companies now are trying to erode with the same "just licensing" shenaniga…

Citation needed.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#413

Post by _delirium »

dredmorbius wrote: post #412
_delirium wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also interesting how similar this is to the previous round, a century ago: the first-sale doctrine arose precisely to put an end to shenanigans publishers were trying to pull where they claimed they were only "licensing" a copy of the text to the person who purchased the dead tree. It reasserted the property rights of the purchaser, which companies now are trying to erode with the same "just licensing" shenaniga…

Citation needed.

On which subject in particular do you want pointers to additional reading?

(I'm going to assume that for basic background information, such as the history of the "first-sale doctrine", you're as capable of using Google and Wikipedia as anyone else.)

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#414

Post by talaketu »

varikin wrote: post #389
tinco wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like releasing an ebook is somehow cheaper than releasing a paperback. I think in many cases this does not hold true. As long as ebooks represent a minority of all book sales producing paperbacks will be cheaper to produce than ebooks, just by law of mass production.

I don't understand how ebooks can cost more than a mass production paper book. If you are familiar with the industry of producing paper and ebooks for books that are best sellers then I would really love hear about the cost difference in producing both.

I have no idea about this.. but I can speculate that maintaining the DRM system indefinitely after the initial sale represents an ongoing cost whose net present value needs to be considered in contrast with a DRM-free book.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#415

Post by mejari »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #397
guard-of-terra wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hollywood blockbusters and AAA video games are disgusting as a concept; most are also lousy and boring as an implementation of that concept. So good news, I'm not pirating blockbusters, but bad news for you, I'm not paying for these either. No food for your thick sarcasm. What do I do? I support independent efforts while torrenting oldies and classics. You can say that latter is piracy, but I don't care and their aut…

I enjoy how my comments get a few upvotes and then slowly sink. It is somehow nice to "suffer" for truth.

Maybe it's because you feel the need to use holier-than-thou language like "No food for your thick sarcasm." and "It is somehow nice to "suffer" for truth."

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#416

Post by talaketu »

kbutler wrote: post #381
tinco wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like releasing an ebook is somehow cheaper than releasing a paperback. I think in many cases this does not hold true. As long as ebooks represent a minority of all book sales producing paperbacks will be cheaper to produce than ebooks, just by law of mass production.

giggle Mass production has no beneficial effect when the incremental cost of each unit is indistinguishable from zero.

Volume drives the incremental cost towards marginal cost.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#417

Post by talaketu »

tinco wrote: post #369
cletus wrote: post #335

The fact that Amazon can do this is obviously scary, particularly for those with extensive Kindle libraries. Personally I love the idea of ebooks but the publishers are doing their best to kill this market (eg Surface Detail in paperback is $6, as an ebook its $10 WTF?). Now I can't speak to the truth of these claims. I have no inside knowledge but I will say this: be skeptical of such stories. I have seen other stor…

You make it sound like releasing an ebook is somehow cheaper than releasing a paperback. I think in many cases this does not hold true. As long as ebooks represent a minority of all book sales producing paperbacks will be cheaper to produce than ebooks, just by law of mass production.

I can't believe cost would be the dominant factor in the price difference.

More likely, someone who has invested in a kindle will pay a higher price to obtain the convenience of the ebook and justify that investment. Publisher is just maximizing profit by setting price higher.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#418

Post by saucerful »

elarkin wrote: post #357
Arjuna wrote: post #183

I am curious: could a story like this happen in the United States? According to my reading of the legal case (I am not a lawyer, but it would be interesting if any of you are could comment - grellas, perhaps) regarding Amazon's remote deletion of Nineteen Eighty-Four and Animal Farm , the settlement involving that case appears to protect what happened in this story from happening to users in the United States. Of cou…

A co-worker of mine (US) lost his kindle library about a year ago. Amazon closed his account and refused to tell him why. It took several tech blogs and newspapers phoning up Amazon with the story for him to get it back. In other words, he got restitution because of articles like this one. He no longer buys kindle books.

Did he ever find out why the library was deleted in the first place?

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#419

Post by blake8086 »

edanm wrote: post #380
maratd wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> be skeptical of such stories Don't be too skeptical. Most of the people on HN had some big company restrict/kill an account by some BigCo at some point. Microsoft, Google, eBay, PayPal, Amazon, Facebook, etc. handle millions of accounts. They have automated filters that trigger based on specified criteria that kill your account. Their default response when this happens? Talk to legal. Well, more like write to legal…

"Don't be too skeptical. Most of the people on HN had some big company restrict/kill an account by some BigCo at some point." Most ? That is a pretty serious statement, and I really doubt you can back it up. I don't have statistics on this and don't know where to look for them, but I would guess that the numbers of HN'ers that have had an account closed by a BigCo is actually much less than 1%, never mind more than 5…

My eBay account was closed because someone disputed a purchase from a family member, and my previous address was the same as theirs.

Now it would take 99 other HNers who haven't had accounts closed to cancel me out and keep the ratio at 1%.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#420

Post by jb55 »

pnathan wrote: post #344
cletus wrote: post #335

The fact that Amazon can do this is obviously scary, particularly for those with extensive Kindle libraries. Personally I love the idea of ebooks but the publishers are doing their best to kill this market (eg Surface Detail in paperback is $6, as an ebook its $10 WTF?). Now I can't speak to the truth of these claims. I have no inside knowledge but I will say this: be skeptical of such stories. I have seen other stor…

Well, I figure when I get home, I'll rsync the kindle over to a local directory. :-)

I do this, but not with rsync. I put PDFs and books that I want to read into my Dropbox during the day. When I get home I bidirectionally sync to my kindle dx with Unison (http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/). I wouldn't trust my books with Amazon, ever.
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