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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#411

Post by backscratches »

FL33TW00D wrote: post #388
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

How can you say camera only navigation won’t work with such finality when humans manage just fine every day! You literally have an existence proof of it working.

Yeah and we should replace the wheels with legs. every other company disagrees with musk, putting alternate sensors on even low end cars.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#412

Post by vtail »

danny_codes wrote: post #311
vtail wrote: post #162

"HN is dying" is a cliche, I know, but I seriously want to bookmark this thread to revisit it in 10 years - I'm sure it will age even better than (in)famous Dropbox thread. So from that perspective, HN is alive and well :). The level of cynicism of the discussion is overwhelming, frankly. I get it that some people don't like Musk because of his politics, but why should that prevent people interested in technology to…

Tesla isn’t a market leader in any of these things. It’s a decent shop, but not a leader in any of these things you’ve mentioned.

I would argue that it is a leader in vision-only FSD, which is useful for both self-driving and robots.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#413

Post by plomme »

FL33TW00D wrote: post #388
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

How can you say camera only navigation won’t work with such finality when humans manage just fine every day! You literally have an existence proof of it working.

Both the vision and cognition hardware in humans are vastly superior, and don't get me started on the software.

I never understood why they would choose to fight with "one hand behind your back". More sensors = more better

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#414

Post by ulfw »

cschmatzler wrote: post #351
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

I agree that this decision is insane and the whole Optimus/xAI bullshit is tiring, especially with the shareholders actually voting against the xAI investment, but you should try today's FSD. It's genuinely good and shouldn't be discarded wholesale because the guy sucks.

Tesla's Full Self-Driving (FSD) is officially classified as a Level 2 advanced driver-assistance system (ADAS). Despite its advanced capabilities, it requires the human driver to remain fully attentive, monitor the environment, and be ready to take control immediately.

So it's literally nothing special compared to other manufacturers. I am happy to argue that's it's a better Level 2 than most others, sure. But it's still just that. No magic, no bullshitty "by 2017 the car will drive itself from New York to Los Angeles". No it hasn't and no it won't.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#415

Post by Cthulhu_ »

avhception wrote: post #371
lnsru wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gamble with Cybertruck failed. It’s common sense, that such a vehicle will fail. The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch. Expensive experiment failed, it’s time for consequences. Does Tesla have resources for another car experiment? Will it stay a car company?.. Or it will be…

... but they aren't canceling the Cybertruck? Re: Robots bla bla: yeah, of course. FSD bla bla. Meh.

That's weird too, maybe they just have some preorders they need to fulfill. They did stop its production for a while last year and reduced the number of models available.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#416

Post by Cthulhu_ »

riffraff wrote: post #304
vannevar wrote: post #29

The next shoe to drop will be shifting Model Y production from Fremont to Austin. Fremont will make Model 3s. Austin will make Model Ys and Robotaxis/2s. Cybertruck will be canceled. None of the Tesla plants will be making robots at any scale for many years.

Do you expect the demand for Tesla's robotaxis to be high? I don't see it.

I don't see the demand for their robots to be high either tbh, but they're betting on them. It's not going to work.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#417

Post by javawizard »

FL33TW00D wrote: post #406
kleton wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be possible to build an ornithopter, evidenced by the existence of avians, but it turned out the easiest ways to make flying machines were otherwise.

I like the comparison, but with aviation on a fundamental level we made it simpler (removing actuation), not added more (senses we dont need)

Jet engines do not strike me as being inherently simpler than muscles, not by a long shot.

They're still the best way we know of going about the business of building a flying machine, for various reasons.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#418

Post by SPICLK2 »

FL33TW00D wrote: post #388
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

How can you say camera only navigation won’t work with such finality when humans manage just fine every day! You literally have an existence proof of it working.

Technology can't compete with how easy it is to make more human-based navigation devices ;-)

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#419

Post by ralfd »

backscratches wrote: post #408
ako wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though tesla has only 2 models, i would still consider it for a new car, if not for Elon Musk. I have an Y, and it does everything i want it to do. Drives nicely, lots of (cargo) space, no friction charging when driving in Europe. Just plug it in a supercharger and it loads fast. No hassle with subscriptions and cards. Very reliable. With the 3 and the Y they're already catering for a large part of the market de…

Up until recently teslas were regularly ranked around the world as the least reliable car brand. https://www.topspeed.com/germany-declares-tesla-model-y-is-l... and https://electrek.co/2025/12/11/tesla-ranks-dead-last-used-ca...

That is bad. One issue seems to be that brakes of electric cars can get issues over time as they are not used enough (because instead of true braking the regenerative recuperation is used).

Good though: If you are in an accident Teslas are the safest car one can buy

https://www.ancap.com.au/media-and-gallery/media-releases/22...

> The Tesla Model Y achieved the highest overall weighted score of any vehicle assessed by ANCAP in 2025, recording strong performance across all areas of occupant protection and active safety technology.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#420

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

FL33TW00D wrote: post #388
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

How can you say camera only navigation won’t work with such finality when humans manage just fine every day! You literally have an existence proof of it working.

The safety record of humans is not so great. They tend to fail in snow, ice, fog, rain and at night. We should be aiming a little higher.

I don’t think it makes sense to limit yourself while you are still figuring out what really works. You should go with a maximum of sensors and once it works, you can see what can be left out.

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