Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

There's a ridiculous amount of tech in a disposable vape

blog.jgc.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 673 posts

Re: There's a ridiculous amount of tech in a disposable vape

#411

Post by bborud »

tthoou34233423 wrote: post #70
Quinner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason disposables are so popular in the US is the FDA banned any flavored cartridges, which doesn't include disposables. The immense battery waste is a direct result of a relatively new law.

I seriously wonder how it's even feasible for these things to be profitable.

Well, since pretty much everything that consumes power today has an MCU in it, simple MCUs are extremely cheap. Volumes are immense. They are also space efficient and it is easy to manufacture PCBAs with them. They also occupy that sweet spot where the need for low power consumption means that you use gate sizes that are fairly largeish -- manufacturing processes and technology that is much, much cheaper than what is used for CPUs for instance.

Same thing with batteries. Ridiculous volume -> low prices. (Laptops and cell phones is why we have usable electric cars. If the EV industry had to drive up the volume all on its own it would have taken much longer to develop that industry)

Re: There's a ridiculous amount of tech in a disposable vape

#412

Post by megablast »

pkolaczk wrote: post #217
pjmlp wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why when folks nowadays say "you cannot use XYZ for embedded", given what most embedded systems look like, and what many of us used to code on 8 and 16 bit home computers, I can only assert they have no idea how powerful modern embedded systems have become. Now that it is a pity that when people talk about saving the planet everyone keeps rushing to dispoable electronics, what serves me to go by bycicle to w…

> Which is why when folks nowadays say "you cannot use XYZ for embedded", given what most embedded systems look like, and what many of us used to code on 8 and 16 bit home computers, I can only assert they have no idea how powerful modern embedded systems have become. Yet, I still need to wait about 1 second (!) after each key press when buying a parking ticket and the machine wants me to enter my license plate numbe…

Anything that makes the world worse for car drivers is a huge bonus for The planet.

Re: There's a ridiculous amount of tech in a disposable vape

#415

Post by philipallstar »

lallysingh wrote: post #357
pkolaczk wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is why when folks nowadays say "you cannot use XYZ for embedded", given what most embedded systems look like, and what many of us used to code on 8 and 16 bit home computers, I can only assert they have no idea how powerful modern embedded systems have become. Yet, I still need to wait about 1 second (!) after each key press when buying a parking ticket and the machine wants me to enter my license plate numbe…

My first guess was debouncing. They assume that the switches are worn out, deeply weathered, and cheaply made. Each press will cause the signal to oscillate and they're taking their sweet time to register it. When the device is new this is an absurd amount of time to wait. As the device degrades over 10, 20 years, that programming will keep it working the same. Awful the entire time, yes, but the same as the day it w…

That's a good point. When I use them I assume they're making API calls to a central server to validate (or something) them.

Re: There's a ridiculous amount of tech in a disposable vape

#416

Post by subscribed »

Freedumbs wrote: post #211
smashed wrote: post #3

Many countries have deposits for single use bottles/cans but an electronic device with a lipo battery is seen as perfectly fine to throw away. These things should have 100 times the deposit amount of a can of soda with mandatory requirements for retailers to take the 'empties' back.

Based on your reply you haven't fully considered context. Smokers don't care about themselves or else they wouldn't smoke. As demonstrated by the article, you can see proof that they also don't care for the environment. What makes you think people who intentionally pay to kill themselves and then throw the waste on the ground instead of trash will ever recycle?

This is so incredibly simplistic it cannot be an argument in a good faith.

Addictions exists. To stop smoking is HARD. Nicotine addition us on par with benzos, prescription opiates or amphetamines.

Re: There's a ridiculous amount of tech in a disposable vape

#417

Post by slow_typist »

regularfry wrote: post #308
slow_typist wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RFID tags are powered wirelessly, one could imagine powering smaller particles when operating on higher frequencies (RFID is on 13.something MHz requiring relatively large coils). A directional antenna could send a pulsed beam to power a subset of the particles in the area and afterwards receive their signals.

It needs to be in the infrared spectrum at least to be useful for smart dust, otherwise the package size is still dominated by the size of the antenna. Even mm-wave radar is marginal here.

Okay if you take dust literally. The important part is that the particles fly. Like dandelion seeds.

Re: There's a ridiculous amount of tech in a disposable vape

#418

Post by bborud »

f311a wrote: post #408
bborud wrote: post #399

This shouldn't be surprising since a vape is a safety critical device. Primarily because the temperature control has to be precise and you have to solve a surprisingly large number of control problems that can arise in real life. For instance, if you overshoot the temperature the amount of toxic by-products can increase sharply. You can also cause parts of the vape to disintegrate, and then aspirate things you really…

I think you overestimate how much vape companies care about safety. When there is no liquid left, you just vape smoke from burning cotton (it tastes like burned plastic) on half of these devices. There are checks for this, but they are not that good.

I'm sure most don't care more than regulations require them to care (including making tradeoffs in terms of risks of getting caught, and the chance of actual enforcement). But that doesn't change the fact that it is a safety-critical device. It produces something that interfaces directly with sensitive tissues.

I talked to someone who worked on developing vapes and they spent much, if not most, of their engineering on safety-related issues. They may be an outlier. The reason I remember is because I was surprised how dangerous these devices really are if you get things wrong.

As a software engineer with some hardware experience, I would never use a vape. It strikes me as way too risky. Much for the reason you point out: the companies probably don't care more than they are forced to by regulations.

Re: There's a ridiculous amount of tech in a disposable vape

#419

Post by zoobab »

GeertB wrote: post #72

For these devices the microcontroller needs to be super cheap. Microcontrollers like the Puya PY32 Series (e.g., PY32C642, PY32F002/F030) can cost in the $0.02 - $0.05 range for the kind of many-million volumes applicable for disposable vapes. These are 32-bit ARM Cortex M0 MCUs, running at a 24 MHz clock or similar, some with 24 KB of ROM and maybe 3 KB of RAM! To put into context: this is 3x the ROM/RAM of the ZX81…

"Microcontrollers like the Puya PY32 Series (e.g., PY32C642, PY32F002/F030) can cost in the $0.02 - $0.05 range"

LCSC says between 6 and 8 cents in volume:

https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/C5292058.html

500+ $ 0.0802 2,500+ $ 0.0727 5,000+ $ 0.0682"

Re: There's a ridiculous amount of tech in a disposable vape

#420

Post by Dylan16807 »

lostlogin wrote: post #143
loeg wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nearly all the plastic humans have made still exists. And it just doesn't matter. It's a tiny amount of mass / volume. > The great garbage patch in the Pacific is growing fast. Ocean plastics are almost entirely a consequence of (particularly Indonesian) fishing net waste, not Western consumer products disposed of in managed landfills. The "great garbage patch" is also very much overstating the scale of the problem…

> And it just doesn't matter. It's a tiny amount of mass / volume. Are you sure? It’s getting into food. We are eating it and drinking it, and it’s getting more prevalent.

It's not getting there from competent landfills, and there are many many competent landfills. An elaborate return program wouldn't do better.
Post reply on HN