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ChatGPT Health

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Re: ChatGPT Health

#411

Post by comboy »

Rebuff5007 wrote: post #379
mlmonkey wrote: post #156

My uncle had an issue with his balance and slurred speech. Doctors claimed dementia and sent him home. It kept becoming worse and worse. Then one day I entered the symptoms in ChatGPT (or was it Gemini?) and asked it for the top 3 hypotheses. The first one was related to dementia. The second was something else (I forget the long name). I took all 3 to his primary care doc who had kept ignoring the problem, and asked…

I've heard a lot of such anecdotes. I'm not saying its ill-intentioned, but the skeptic in me is cautious that this is the type of reasoning which propels the anti-vax movement. I wish / hope the medical community will address stories like this before people lose trust in them entirely. How frequent are mis-diagnosis like this? How often is "user research" helping or hurting the process of getting good health outcome…

I also don't know. Additional point to consider: vast majority of doctors have no clue about Bayes theorem.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#412

Post by logicallee »

ihtef wrote: post #408

I always check my blood test and mrı results with ChatGPT before showing to Doctor. Doctor says same thing what ChatGPT says and it's giving more clear and detailed information. However we shouldn't trust chatgpt result 100%. It's just good to take an idea. Also we shouldn't trust any doctor 100%

I ran a part of your comment through ChatGPT, and it said you're typing on a Turkish keyboard or have it set as your language. Is this true?

Re: ChatGPT Health

#414

Post by paulryanrogers »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #385
mlmonkey wrote: post #156

My uncle had an issue with his balance and slurred speech. Doctors claimed dementia and sent him home. It kept becoming worse and worse. Then one day I entered the symptoms in ChatGPT (or was it Gemini?) and asked it for the top 3 hypotheses. The first one was related to dementia. The second was something else (I forget the long name). I took all 3 to his primary care doc who had kept ignoring the problem, and asked…

[flagged]

Isn't there a risk doctors stop giving out a diagnosis for most cases? So you'll pay for their time then have to see 10 different ones before getting any idea what's wrong? Because they're avoiding the risk of a wrong diagnosis in all but the most obvious cases.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#415

Post by dxuh »

I've had serious trouble with my knee and elbow for years and ChatGPT helped me immensely after a good couple dozen of doctors just told me to take Ibuprofen and rest and never talked to me for longer than 3 minutes. I feel like as with most things LLM there are many opponents that say "if you do what an LLM says you will die", which is correct, while most people that look positively towards using LLMs for health advice report that they used ChatGPT to diagnose something. Having a conversation with ChatGPT based on reports and scans and figuring out what follow-up tests to recommend or questions to ask a doctor makes sense for many people. Just like asking an LLM to review your code is awesome and helpful and asking LLM to write your code is an invitation for trouble.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#416

Post by threethirtytwo »

vidarh wrote: post #386
rl3 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a sweeping generalization unsupported by facts. In reality you'll find the vast majority of GPs are highly intelligent and quite good at problem solving. In fact, I'd go so far as to say their training is so intensive and expansive that laypeople who make such comments are profoundly lacking in awareness on the topic. Physicians are still human, so like anything there's of course bad ones, specialists included…

Maybe they are, but for most of my interactions with GP's in recent years, and several with specialists, for anything much beyond the very basics, I've had to educate them , and it didn't require much knowledge to exceeds theirs on specific conditions. In one case, a specialist made arguments that were trivially logically fallacious and went directly against the evidence from treatment outcomes. In other cases, sheer…

Your personal experience is anecdotal and thus not as reliable as statistical facts. This alone is not a good metric.

However your anecdotal experience is not only inline with my own experience. It is actually inline with the facts as well.

When the person your responding to said that what you wasn’t backed up by facts I’m going to tell you straight up that, that statement was utter bullshit. Everything you’re saying here is true and generally true and something many many patients experience.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#417

Post by emeril »

comboy wrote: post #411
Rebuff5007 wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard a lot of such anecdotes. I'm not saying its ill-intentioned, but the skeptic in me is cautious that this is the type of reasoning which propels the anti-vax movement. I wish / hope the medical community will address stories like this before people lose trust in them entirely. How frequent are mis-diagnosis like this? How often is "user research" helping or hurting the process of getting good health outcome…

I also don't know. Additional point to consider: vast majority of doctors have no clue about Bayes theorem.

well, to the credit of Bayes, dementia is likely a safe choice (depending on age/etc.) but dementia is largely a diagnosis of exclusion and most doctors, besides being unfamiliar with Bayes, are also just plain lazy and/or dumb and shouldn't immediately jump to the most likely explanation when it's one with the worst prognosis and fewest treatments...

Re: ChatGPT Health

#418

Post by herpdyderp »

Rebuff5007 wrote: post #379
mlmonkey wrote: post #156

My uncle had an issue with his balance and slurred speech. Doctors claimed dementia and sent him home. It kept becoming worse and worse. Then one day I entered the symptoms in ChatGPT (or was it Gemini?) and asked it for the top 3 hypotheses. The first one was related to dementia. The second was something else (I forget the long name). I took all 3 to his primary care doc who had kept ignoring the problem, and asked…

I've heard a lot of such anecdotes. I'm not saying its ill-intentioned, but the skeptic in me is cautious that this is the type of reasoning which propels the anti-vax movement. I wish / hope the medical community will address stories like this before people lose trust in them entirely. How frequent are mis-diagnosis like this? How often is "user research" helping or hurting the process of getting good health outcome…

The fact is that many doctors do suck. Nearly all of my family members have terrible doctor stories, one even won a huge malpractice law suit. We can’t hide the real problems because we’re afraid of anti-vaxxers.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#419

Post by threethirtytwo »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #414
threethirtytwo wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Isn't there a risk doctors stop giving out a diagnosis for most cases? So you'll pay for their time then have to see 10 different ones before getting any idea what's wrong? Because they're avoiding the risk of a wrong diagnosis in all but the most obvious cases.

The easy way to stop this is to charge less. 50 bucks. And have the patient sign something and have him affirm that his diagnosis is probabilistic and not fully reliable.

They need to charge what they’re actually worth and what they are worth correlates with reliability. They also need to communicate the effective reliability to the patient.

Instead they charge something like a thousand dollars for less than an hour of their time for a false yes or no diagnosis.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#420

Post by adventured »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #396
weatherlite wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ? In most countries, including the U.S, they are a very highly paid profession (I'm not talking about the internship phase)

"Rich doctor" is a thing only in the U.S., and that's due to collusion and price fixing, not because American doctors are better somehow. In the rest of the world doctors are basically like white-collar car mechanics, and often earn less money and respect.

That's false. One example:

"According to the Government of Canada Job Bank, the median annual salary for a General Practitioner (GP) in Canada is $233,726 (CAD) as of January 23, 2024."

That's roughly $170,000 in the US. If you adjust for anything reasonable, such as GDP per capita or median income between the US & Canada, that $170k figure matches up very well with the median US general practitioner figure of around $180k-$250k (sources differ, all tend to fall within that range). The GPs in Canada may in fact be slightly better paid than in the US.

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