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Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

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Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#411

Post by anovikov »

steveBK123 wrote: post #399
anovikov wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the fall of USSR, no one was "afraid to shoot". No one was motivated to do so. Or do anything for the completely failed system that no longer worked for anyone, inside or outside it. By 1991, no one cared for good ol' Union. That's the only reason it died so peacefully in its sleep with virtually no violence - it was so rotten, no one could care for its survival.

And indeed that is how the Shah fell in Iran - the regime was so rotten that even the military elite no longer saw it as worth defending. Will the current regime face the same eventually?

Just like in Soviet Union's case, trick isn't how to topple a regime, a sufficiently rotten one will fall by itself, but how to make sure the country that remains is sufficiently neutered to not become a menace again. It was simply overlooked by the West in 1991: they foolishly fell under the influence of their own propaganda and believed that Communism was the problem and with it gone, there was nothing left to worry about. As it turns out, Russia itself, was the problem. It was easy to solve in 1991 and extremely hard now. Hopefully it won't be repeated with Iran.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#412

Post by marcosdumay »

MomsAVoxell wrote: post #382
condensedcrab wrote: post #2

From Rafael’s site: https://www.rafael.co.il/system/iron-beam/ 100kW laser is nothing to joke about, but seems a good application for anti drone tasks. Fiber lasers are pretty snazzy.

Easily defeated with clouds of aluminum chaff? First wave of drones get targeted, explode into clouds of chaff, second wave of drones penetrates the de-focused laser system.

I dunno why people insist on this, there have been desktop lasers that cut aluminum and steel for ages.

Those materials do not reflect evert frequency.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#413

Post by LightBug1 »

solidsnack9000 wrote: post #305
xg15 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how it looks like though with the way Israel acts like the judge, jury and executioner of the region. You get the feeling that only Israeli lives count in the Middle East.

Does a reference to "...the judge, jury and executioner..." really make sense in armed conflict? Is there really a judge or a jury? There isn't really even an executioner, in the sense of a lawful delegate tasked with carrying out the result of adjudication. One of the reasons armed conflict is bad is there is really no justice in it and no time for justice. Justice starts to be possible when security is established,…

Back when decent civilization was a thing, there were rules of engagement, conduct, the pursuit of security, and strategic goals which didn't include active genocide of civilians.

Now, granted, we've witnessed horrible things in wars that don't match up to order and clarity of my previous sentence. But there were end goals that made sense.

Sorry, genocide, apartheid and the establishment of a religious-fascist state at the behest of Israeli ring-wing fascists that wouldn't put a foot wrong in Hitlers RKF, isn't an end goal I'd say justifies the means, ends or anything in between.

The establishment of security to the denial of all else, isn't the only dish on the table.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#414

Post by nathanlied »

Amir_A wrote: post #367
timcobb wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Except it is...? Jews were living peacefully in Palestine long before the establishment of a judeo-supremacist apartheid state, to the point you had entire refugee boats of Ashkenazis seeking safe harbor from the holocaust, who ironically became the cornerstone founding population of the Jewish state after the Nakba in 1948 killed and forcefully expelled hundreds of thousands of people (it's the ultimate cautionary t…

There was a lot of inter-community conflict in the years (decades) preceding the formation of Israel, so it wasn't exactly peaceful. That there were some groups (on both sides, though the Jewish ones were far more effective, well-trained, and well-funded) that exploited those conflicts for escalation does not deny that the conflict already existed.

I would also argue that imposing the jizya/dhimmi status, creating "second class citizen status" for non-Muslims was, in and of itself, a form of Muslim-supremacist society in Palestine before Israel existed. Either convert to being a Muslim, or be stuck as a second-class citizen.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#415

Post by llm_nerd »

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #292

Drone tech will adapt, as it has been in the russia/ukraine conflict. A small, fast, autonomous drone flying between trees and buildings, avoiding obstacles and not flying in a straight line could destroy such an expensive system with very little explosive. Or a cloud of such drones. Or launch your attack on a foggy/rainy day.

This system was originally built as a cheaper version of Iron Dome, useful against dumb, slow, predictable trajectory Hamas rockets. The new drone branding is a twist, but of course it's fully usable against things like the Iranian Shahed drones that are basically slow, prop driven cruise missiles.

If someone got close enough that a normal FPV drone like what is seen in Ukraine was in play, I don't think these laser stations would survive for long. Nape of the Earth followed by a barrage of very inexpensive exploding drones.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#416

Post by blurbleblurble »

anovikov wrote: post #363
breppp wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's usually progressive until the people with guns are too afraid to shoot, as in the fall of USSR Although I will believe there are a few more iterations before this regime falls

In the fall of USSR, no one was "afraid to shoot". No one was motivated to do so. Or do anything for the completely failed system that no longer worked for anyone, inside or outside it. By 1991, no one cared for good ol' Union. That's the only reason it died so peacefully in its sleep with virtually no violence - it was so rotten, no one could care for its survival.

Let's not forget how much violence there'd already been

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#417

Post by sirfz »

netsharc wrote: post #348
scottoreily wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You'd be amazed at the amount of radicalization Israeli society gets if you'd bother to look with unbiased eyes. Attacking aid trucks? Spitting at Christians, even tourists? Stealing houses of West Bank people? (Oh must be for that Lebensraum) Maybe that's one goal you should add to your 2026 list...

It's a lunatic society.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#418

Post by logicchains »

fnordian_slip wrote: post #299
steve-atx-7600 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riots are going to end predictably badly when those participating do not have guns. Just like a couple years ago other there. Probably a lesson here.

I have no idea how this hypothesis ("guns protect from oppressive governments") is still holding people's minds captive. The current regime in the US disproves this every day, constantly eroding civil rights and not even being subtle about it. And the people with guns mostly either cheer it on or pretend it's not so bad (until they themselves feature in /r/leopardsatemyface).

Americans still have more rights than almost any other country in the world WRT free speech and weapon ownership for self defense.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#419

Post by [deleted] »

scottoreily wrote: post #326
ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Israeli civilians have faced bombardment by tens of thousands of rockets from Gaza for the last 20 years [1]. There's a reason that's been happening, and it's not technical in nature. Technical solutions are thus unlikely to successfully address the root cause.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#420

Post by PaulHoule »

The real advantage of laser weapons in this role is a very low consumables cost per shot. A few cents of electricity as opposed to an interceptor missile that could be $50k-$1M. Even shooting down missiles with bullets as in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

can cost about $10k a shot because that thing shoots $30 bullets. That kind of laser can even shoot down artillery shells!

The disadvantage is that the beam is disrupted by poor atmospheric conditions such as clouds and turbulence. If the enemy knows you are using it they will attack when conditions are unfavorable for it. It ought to be backed up by something like "Iron Dome".

An airborne laser can fly above the clouds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1

that one was not so practical because it was powered by mixing two kinds of bleach, which is bad enough when you do it on the ground, worse in the air. The targeting system worked great and I think the assumption was that it would come back when fiber lasers got good enough that it could be electrically powered.

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