Uv existing is what made me willing to use Python as my primary prototype/experiment language!
Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
411–420 of 1001 posts
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#412I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing
To be fair, Poetry has done everything uv does for about a decade. uv is much faster, which is great, but lock files, integrated venv management, etc.
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
Webdev since 1998 here. Tabling the python vs JS/etc to comment on npm per se. PNPM is better than npm in every way. Strongest possible recommendation to use it instead of npm; it's faster, more efficient, safer, and more deterministic. See https://pnpm.io/motivation
I've gone all-in on Bun for many of the same reasons. Blazingly fast installs too. https://bun.sh/
Did you experience any compatibility problems with Bun?
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
For that matter, IMX much of what people praise uv for is simply stuff that pip (and venv) can now do that it couldn't back when they gave up on pip. Which in turn has become possible because of several ecosystem standards (defined across many PEPs) and increasing awareness and adoption of those standards. The "install things that have complex non-Python dependencies using pip" story is much better than several years…
Things uv does better by pip by default: - really hard to install a package globally by accident (pip: forgetting to activate venv) - really easy to distinguish de and main dependencies (pip: create different files for different groups and set up their relationship) - distinguish direct dependencies from indirect dependencies, making it easy to find when a package is not needed anymore (pip: I bet most devs are eithe…
> - really hard to install a package globally by accident (pip: forgetting to activate venv)
This is different as of Python 3.11. Please see https://peps.python.org/pep-0668/ for details. Nowadays, to install a package globally, you first have to have a global copy of pip (Debian makes you install that separately), then you have to intentionally bypass a security marker using --break-system-packages.
Also, you don't have to activate the venv to use it. You can specify the path to the venv's pip explicitly; or you can use a different copy of pip (e.g. a globally-installed one) passing it the `--python` argument (you have been able to do this for about 3 years now).
(Pedantically, yes, you could use a venv-installed copy of pip to install into the system environment, passing both --python and --break-system-packages. I can't prove that anyone has ever done this, and I can't fathom a reason beyond bragging rights.)
> - really easy to distinguish [dev] and main dependencies
As of 25.1, pip can install from dependency groups described in pyproject.toml, which is the standard way to group your dependencies in metadata.
> distinguish direct dependencies from indirect dependencies, making it easy to find when a package is not needed anymore
As of 25.1, pip can create PEP 751 standard lockfiles.
> easily use different python versions for different projects
If you want something to install Python for you, yes, that was never in pip's purview, by design.
If you want to use an environment based off an existing Python, that's what venv is for.
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#415I must be the odd man out but I am not a fan of uv. 1. It tries to do too many things. Please just do one thing and do it well. It's simultaneously trying to replace pip, pyenv, virtualenv, and ruff in one command. 2. You end up needing to use `uv pip` so it's not even a full replacement for pip. 3. It does not play well with Docker. 4. It adds more complexity. You end up needing to understand all of these new enviro…
This. I was researching uv to replace my pipenv+pyenv setup, but after reading up a bit I decided to just give up. Pipenv is just straightforward and “just works”. Aside from being slow, not much is wrong with it. I’m not in the mood to start configuring uv, a tool that should take me 2 minutes and a “uv —-help” to learn.
What doesn’t just work about uv in particular? You basically need three commands - uv add, uv sync, and uv run. Forget about virtual environments, and get back to working. No configuration necessary.
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#416Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#417I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing
I have used pip freeze > requirements.txt pip install -r requirements.txt Way before "official" lockfile existed. Your requirements.txt becomes a lockfile, as long as you accept to not use ranges. Having this in a single tool etc why not, but I don't understand this hype, when it was basically already there.
I don’t get the hype either. Every time I’ve tried to use tools like pyenv or pipenv they fall down when I try to install anything that doesn’t provide wheels (GDAL), so I give up and stick to pip and virtualenv. Does uv let me install GDAL without hassle?
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#418I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing
> that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing
I think it's more like Rust devs using Python and thinking what the fuck why isn't this more like rustup+cargo?
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#419Earlier quoted context omitted.
For that matter, IMX much of what people praise uv for is simply stuff that pip (and venv) can now do that it couldn't back when they gave up on pip. Which in turn has become possible because of several ecosystem standards (defined across many PEPs) and increasing awareness and adoption of those standards. The "install things that have complex non-Python dependencies using pip" story is much better than several years…
The things you list may be a reason for some, but in all discussions I’ve had and read about on uv, the reason is that it behaves as a package manger should . It can just install dependencies from an automatically generated lockfile. It can update outdated minor versions. It can tell me about outdated versions of my dependencies. It can reproduce a build on another machine. The lock file can be put into version contr…
> the reason is that it behaves as a package manger should.
This is a matter of opinion. Pip exists to install the packages and their dependencies. It does not, by design, exist to manage a project for you.
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#420Honestly though it's a pretty rough indictment of Python that the best thing to happen in a decade is that people started writing Python tools in Rust. Not even a little Rust, uv is 98% Rust. I mean, they just released 3.14 and that was supposed to be a pretty big deal.
Who cares what it is written in?
Rust's rigorous separation of immutable and mutable state consistently leads to higher-quality software that stands the test of time.