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Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

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Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#411

Post by LorenPechtel »

Davidzheng wrote: post #367
voakbasda wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why there should be more nuance to the issue: legalizing suicide is not the same as legalizing assisted suicide. I want to be free to die on my own terms. Conversely, I do not want the healthcare system to be allowed to even suggest it.

suicide already is legal -> if you succeed there's no one to prosecute so the question is just absurd. One can only discuss legality of attempted suicide.

You're assuming someone in shape to do it correctly. Someone who is choosing it for medical reasons might not have the strength and motor control, especially if they don't have access to suitable tools.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#412

Post by jonhohle »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #395
jonhohle wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative being when someone becomes inconvenient to others we should encourage their death? What good is compassion or empathy when the lesser in society could just go off and die, right? Why stop at incurable diseases? Political opponents, coworkers, nasty service workers, double parkers, lawyers, and many other groups cause a lot of anguish and suffering.

Nobody's saying that anyone should be encouraged to die. That is an evil thing. But that does not mean that people should not be permitted to choose to die vs suffer.

The thread topic was about terminating the life of someone suffering from dementia who likely didn’t have advanced directive. I read this comment in that context - that it would nto be voluntary, but in cases where the person couldn’t choose for themselves.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#413

Post by Noaidi »

lukan wrote: post #241
Noaidi wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if he tried that, but every day just got worse than the last day? Anyone can say that about their life right now, can't they? How many people struggling today think that their life will get no better? Look at all those who made it through slavery, what hope did they have? Their hope came from their faith. Suffering has a purpose, this is something your grandmother understands through her faith. Buddhists under…

Well, but what if I ain't a christian nor a buddhist and don't think suffering as a normal living condition is necessary? (Can you proof it is? Also I don't think all christians/buddhists share that believe) So sure, suffering and pain are part of life. And accepting that helps a lot to not get stuck in that condition by avoiding painful things, you cannot avoid. "Anyone can say that about their life right now, can't…

The first of the four noble truths set fourth by the Buddha:

The truth of dukkha: Recognizing that suffering is a fundamental part of existence

They even call Joy “hidden suffering”. Because whenever the thing is that gives us joy, if we become attached to it and it is taken away then we have suffering.

And the Christians believe that the suffering of Christ was needed to forgive everyone of their sins.

So they both view suffering as an important aspect of life. Something to be used for learning and understanding the human condition.

But the buddhist and the Christians believe that you can escape what you would think of a state of constant suffering through religious practices. It’s the faith the American slaves had in Christ that got them through their state of living hell. And we’ve even seen a Buddhist light themselves on fire to protest the war in Vietnam. So I’m sorry, but I can’t look upon suffering as something that’s negative and I accept it as part of life and just as I can learn things from joy and I can learn things from suffering, and they are both the same size of the coin and equally as valuable.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#414

Post by lukan »

Noaidi wrote: post #402
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer, my life isn’t going to get better. And please don’t bring some mythical being in the argument.

Both the Buddha andJesus were real people. I wasn’t bringing up God as I don’t believe in a Christian God, and Buddhists don’t believe in God at all. But those two characters taught us a lot about suffering. Where it comes from and how to face suffering with courage and not just throw your morals out the window once you have the glimpse of even future suffering. Maybe it’s just me, but I see every moment as the best…

"And I want to live every last second of it."

Glad for you. I really hope you never come into a situation that you wish for your life to end. But please take into account, that other people might experience life different at times.

No one has a death wish, because things are a bit rough sometimes. But if life is constant hell and when there is no hope anymore. Then you wish for death to release you.

(Also do you know what latestage cancer can mean? Constant pain that does not go away, ever.

And Jesus might have been a real person, but that he choose crucification out of his own choice is very much part of the mythological story that other people told after his death)

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#416

Post by leakycap »

Noaidi wrote: post #402
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer, my life isn’t going to get better. And please don’t bring some mythical being in the argument.

Both the Buddha andJesus were real people. I wasn’t bringing up God as I don’t believe in a Christian God, and Buddhists don’t believe in God at all. But those two characters taught us a lot about suffering. Where it comes from and how to face suffering with courage and not just throw your morals out the window once you have the glimpse of even future suffering. Maybe it’s just me, but I see every moment as the best…

> If you just try to grab the good times in this life and use that as a goal you’re going to be severely disappointed.

No, it sounds like you would be disappointed in that scenario. Many would be elated to get through this hell-hole relatively joyous & unscathed.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#417

Post by leakycap »

lukan wrote: post #296
circlefavshape wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see how you handle suffering when it comes knocking on your door

He shared his brother had shizophrenia and much later died of it. I assume he did got a glimpse into what suffering means. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45548996

Seeing someone else experience something is not the same as having it happen to you, and those who wish to instill their opinion on others often have the smallest worldviews and ability to think about what it might be like to experience what someone else is going through.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#418

Post by leakycap »

imtringued wrote: post #396
hannofcart wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, I urge you to consider whether it is your statement that is overly dismissive. Is there perhaps some existing conditioning, maybe in the form of religious upbringing that is driving your reaction to this? Many of us in fact find OP's a very thoughtful comment than a "silly statement". > By your logic we should kill everyone at their peak. No, they suggested that the old and ailing whose quality of li…

The problem is on your end. Consider the following scenarios: There is a red button that orders your euthanasia. Pressing it instantly teleports you to a euthanasia facility and leads to your death unless you say no within 30 seconds. The button reads your fingerprint and can only be pressed by you. (Assume science fiction level technology to make this true) 1. The button is located 5000 km away from you in an unknow…

> The problem is on your end

followed by

> There is a red button [...] buttons [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] buttons [...] buttons [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] button [...] second red button

Not sure the problem is on their end!

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#419

Post by leakycap »

hrimfaxi wrote: post #254
AlexeyBrin wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately someone with advanced dementia does not know if she has eaten or not. Most of the time there will be no eating, unless someone else puts food in your mouth.

That wasn't the case with my father, who had a pretty good appetite up until his last few weeks.

I'm sorry for your first-hand experience, but I also need to remind you that 1 first-hand experience does not translate well to the overall population of people experiencing dementia.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#420

Post by anigbrowl »

firesteelrain wrote: post #360
teiferer wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should euthanize another human You are shiftinf the topic. This is about self-euthanization, assisted suicide. Not others. > Where do we draw the line? As written elsewhere, having to draw a line does not mean that the only reasonable conclusion is to make it illegal in general. It's a hard topic without easy answers. "Don't allow it" is an easy answer that doesn't do justice to the topics complexity. A good fri…

It is not really a shift. The slippery slope is the heart of the debate. Once assisted suicide is allowed, the line between respecting autonomy and others making that decision blurs. Safeguards may help, but asking where to draw the line is the central problem.

Yes it. You are not the arbiter of what the heart of the debate is.
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