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German government comes out against Chat Control

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Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#411

Post by gambiting »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #405
gambiting wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean sure, but does that actually add up to over 50% of your income? Here in the UK it works exactly the same as you described, but the NI is 10% of your income - even if you are in the highest band for incomne tax(also 45%) you wouldn't get to 50% overall, maybe if you make millions a year that average would start getting close to 50% (and if you do, congrats!) And can I comment on the fact that Germany seems to b…

No, it adds up to almost 50% of your wage . People who make millions of dollars (freelancers, company shareholders, etc) pay capital gains taxes of 25%. High earning people have capital, not a wage, either by way of company shares or asset payouts. They pay a tiny bit more tax and no social obligations You forget that the 42% band kicks in at 68000 (up until 280k) not 10k from the median wage. You pay this with 1.2%…

>> People who make millions of dollars (freelancers, company shareholders, etc) pay capital gains taxes of 25%. High earning people have capital, not a wage, either by way of company shares or asset payouts. They pay a tiny bit more tax and no social obligations

Yes, obviously - it works the same way here. You just said that "anywhere in Germany" you will pay 50% of your income in taxes, so I'm asking if your average worker actually pays that, or even a high earning IT worker/lawyer/doctor, or just somone who takes home millions in pay(not capital gains) so that the averages catch up.

>>You forget that the 42% band kicks in at 68000 (up until 280k) not 10k from the median wage.

I didn't forget, but like I said 3 comments earlier - your average will work out closer to 30% not 50%(I'd guess) because you only pay it on anything above the threshold, not on your entire income. Again, Germany seems very generous here - in the UK you start paying 40% once you cross £50k/pa.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#412

Post by brazukadev »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #380
dns_snek wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of German companies are owned and managed by its workers? What percentage are owned by capitalists, generating private profits? Are those numbers indicative of socialism or capitalism? > I recommend you read up on it a bit before making snarky comments on the internet. It's not a snarky comment. Regulation and welfare are requirements even in a capitalist economy, otherwise you have people dying on th…

> What percentage of German companies are owned and managed by its workers? This sentence does not apply because "social market economy" does not imply that companies should be owned by their workes. > What percentage are owned by capitalists, generating private profits? This sentence does not apply because a "social market economy" does not forbid the generation of profits. Profits are to be shared with the populace…

> This sentence does not apply because a "social market economy" does not forbid the generation of profits. Profits are to be shared with the populace to pay for social policies, which is happening.

Sure. But that is as socialist as it was the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#413

Post by brazukadev »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #403
dns_snek wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your own definitions the USA isn't a capitalist economy due to regulations and their social welfare policies. If that's where you stand then any further discussion is going to be pointless. >> You're essentially arguing that real capitalism hasn't been attempted yet > I have not and you are free to cite where I did. It's a straightforward logical inference. Your definition of capitalism excludes every capitalist e…

> By your own definitions the USA isn't a capitalist economy due to regulations and their social welfare policies. If that's where you stand then any further discussion is going to be pointless. Those are not my definitions. > It's a straightforward logical inference. Your definition of capitalism excludes every capitalist economy that has ever existed No. A social market economy is capitalism with rules and safety n…

> A social market economy is capitalism with rules and safety nets, like strong labor protections, healthcare, and pensions, to make sure people are protected from big hardships

so it is not socialism, the whole point of this discussion.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#414

Post by kakacik »

camillomiller wrote: post #360
selfmodruntime wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet we don't have too many runaway billionaires that are more powerful than governments, and we are still ALL a bit better off because of that. It's boring, but it works. A literal millionare is chancellor. > reedom for us is free healthcare, Last I looked I paid 10k a year for government mandated healthcare. Where can I apply for the free one?

I wonder what is the point of debating like this on the internet. I say billionaires, you mention a "millionaire" chancellor. We don't have anything against becoming rich. But if you think that Herr Merz, who I haven't voted for and politically dislike, is anything close to a tycoon, well I think we're swinging in two very different planes of reality. He's a high-income lawyer who invested and has a net-worth of abou…

You are arguing with a person who doesn't care what people say, facts are just other's propaganda against their emotionally held beliefs, the story is set in their head and thats it. Not a discussion really. Usual avoiding of hard facts that challenge their fantasies.

A fairly typical behavior I've seen countless times in topics about russian war in Ukraine in recent years. No point at all, a wasted time.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#415

Post by onli »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #353
onli wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear is not clean. It causes toxic nuclear waste that will still be radioactive when our civilization ends, radiating the humans of the future. CO2 emissions are also still caused by it, and would grow when mining for nuclear material got harder by continued usage. > other EU country's have been net neutral for CO2 emissions for a while now. No EU country has achieved that, to my knowledge. It would be very surpri…

> Nuclear is not clean The EU court agrees with me. I trust it to have more knowledge than either of us. Nuclear is low-carbon. End of story. You can deal with toxic waste easily. [1] > adiating the humans of the future. Gas and coal produce more radiation than nuclear energy. > CO2 emissions are also still caused by it, and would grow when mining for nuclear material got harder by continued usage. But they would not…

You can not deal with toxic waste easily, as all attempts to do so have shown. See https://web.archive.org/web/20140508211057/http://www.bfs.de... for a report.

Nuclear energy is decidedly not a flexible backup option for anything. Those plants are slow to regulate, have never been and will never be a backup. The solution is energy storage and producing so much more at the peak that at the low end is enough. Also, there is no problem importing from countries that do have more geothermal or hydro energy.

> But they would not grow comparable to burning actual stuff. Not even close. You are being disingenious

The comparison is invalid in the first place. It's not about nuclear vs fossil, I never did argue for fossil energy. So the comparison you opened up is bs anyway. It's a propaganda talk point of nuclear proponents that tries to mislead from the actual comparison to make, which is renewables vs the other options.

The decision of the EU court was unfortunate, stupid, and that appeal to authority does not function.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#416

Post by Geee »

angry_octet wrote: post #249
egeozcan wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AfD is classified as extreme-right not only in the eyes of the public, but also by German intelligence. Therefore I'd personally expect them to support potential tools that authoritarian governments would find useful.

They are not in government just yet. But if they gain control, expect their position to change. That's why it is critical to reverse government positions across the block, or we'll see a new authoritarian wave sweep Europe.

[flagged]

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#418

Post by onli »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #365
geremiiah wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but lol. Germany even makes you pay to be able to piss in a toilet. Even public libraries aren't free! And let's not mention the health care system, which literally has two tiers, one for the poor and one for the rich, with of course the poor-tier being barely functional, and still expensive as fuck. "Social market economy" my ass. Germany is a country led by incompetent extremely paternalistic leaders, the ma…

> Even public libraries aren't free! Because they aren't public. They are provided by a company. > And let's not mention the health care system, which literally has two tiers, one for the poor and one for the rich, with of course the poor-tier being barely functional, and still expensive as fuck This is because of inefficiency, an aging demographic and regulation, not because of capitalism. The "system for the rich"…

>> Even public libraries aren't free!

> Because they aren't public. They are provided by a company.

If you are talking actual libraries here: Hm? Public libraries are provided by the city - all I have ever seen in Germany. They usually cost a member pass, though I have seen completely free ones, but it's either a one-time payment or a yearly recurring fee. Small numbers though, can be as little as 5 Euro.

Public libraries provided by a company are an oxymoron, I doubt that exists in Germany.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#419

Post by pezezin »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #388
anonzzzies wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Globalist views didn't lead to positive results? Until very recent no one was complaining: everything was going up and everyone got better. Now it goed a little less and the underbelly starts whining. And of course people do believe misinformation. People who got a yearly raise over the inflation correction for a decade and now 'only' got inflafion correction whining its the globalist issue because some guy on tiktok…

>Until very recent no one was complaining: everything was going up and everyone got better. The stock market, and your housing and investment portfolios going up, didn't mean that everyone was happy, just the asset holders like yourself and those in your bubble but you're not majority of the working population. You need to learn to differentiate between "the stock market" and "the economy". Working class people can e…

Man, I am reading this whole thread in utter disbelief at all the naive "defenders of freedom", and I have to say that I fully agree with every single one of your comments.
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