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Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

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Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#411

Post by [deleted] »

piker wrote: post #267
vzaliva wrote: post #140

Be cautious with university rankings. Universities can be assessed by research, student satisfaction, teaching quality, cost, accessibility, or by specific fields. Some excel in computer science, others in medicine or the humanities. A single overall ranking is therefore meaningless - look instead for the measure that matches your priorities. For instance, for research impact in computer science, see: https://csranki…

Similarly watch out for ultra-specific rankings that are used to dupe you into thinking the school excels at something that isn't a real category. My state alma mater managed to rank #2 (to HBS of course) in "international business" for years but really has a worthless MBA program. Pure marketing.

[deleted]

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#412

Post by MagnumOpus »

onetimeusename wrote: post #371
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are rankings by "national student survey", which is - how can I put this politely? - possibly not the most rigorous way to measure merit. Oxford has long had a reputation for being a dual university - a raw academic track for smart people, and a political/establishment track for people with money, connections, ambition, and the kind of entitled self-assurance that comes from easy privilege. "Political" doesn't…

Something I am curious about is Cambridge's reputation today for sciences. A lot of pretty famous British mathematicians have done the Tripos part III there. Is that still considered meaningful? I am asking because many US mathematics departments have shed or reduced their master's programs in favor of just focusing on the PhD for postgrads. For historical reasons I am curious how the Tripos part III there has fared.

Cambridge's reputation for sciences is the best in the country, way ahead of Oxford outside a few niches. The tripos part III Masters programme is selective and demanding - and most students are doing it while applying/angling for PhD programmes so from what I hear the pace is high.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#413

Post by ionwake »

wyclif wrote: post #372
rando001111 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking like Oxford is some school for shitdogs now. I went to an unranked school here in Canada for electrical engineering and graduated this year. I did a couple co-ops, won a couple engineering competitions and had my EIT job lined up for me after graduation. Started work a week after classes ended. Rankings are not the end-all be-all for uni.

You're talking like Oxford is some school for shitdogs now A rather crude way to express it. But I don't think that pointing out that Oxbridge isn't always a first choice implies, um, "shitdog" status, whatever that is.

im so confused whether a shitdog is a good thing or bad thing, Im too in love with the term to look it up. Its like a schrodingers cat of words.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#414

Post by achenet »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #127
geremiiah wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In British English, "middle class" refers to the well off professional classes or merchant traders. In American English, if I understand correctly, everyone who works is considered middle class.

The beauty of the term middle class is that it can be whatever the writer wants it to be, including leaving it up the reader’s imagination.

indeed, I'm personally fond of using it to disparage things I don't like.

It's a most excellent insult.

You get the implied snobbery of an upper-class person looking down on their inferiors, whilst also maintaining some street cred via not insulting the painfully poor.

examples: "stupid middle class French boys" "god-awful, self-indulgent prose that only the most basic of middle-class housewives could appreciate" "a speech reeking of vapid middle-class cliches" ...

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#415

Post by MagnumOpus »

OhMeadhbh wrote: post #262
rm445 wrote: post #124

I am a Durham graduate, still somewhat involved with the university via some voluntary roles, and a bit of a 'booster' in the sense that I'll sing its praises to anyone. I also have a postgrad degree from Cambridge and did a little teaching while there. So, I'm quite familiar, and while I'm happy to see Durham get some love, this is bunk. There is a gulf in undergraduate teaching between Oxbridge and the pack. The su…

There's a section in Yes, Prime Minister where Humphrey Appleby makes some comment about preserving England's great universities. Then pauses a beat and adds "both of them." (referring, of course, to Cambridge and Oxford.) It's obvious there are other very good universities in the UK and I don't doubt the LSE has programs that surpass the others. But I spent a couple months on a research project at LSE (and even deli…

I know - I went to Oxford instead of LSE for my masters degree exactly because the reputation of the latter is not there outside a narrow subset of finance/econ professionals in the UK. Even though the LSE programme was older and more established and cheaper.

The same is true in the US as well: The University of Chicago and University of Pennsylvania are probably world beating for economics and finance research respectively -- but I would still recommend people to go to Harvard/Stanford for an economics-focused undergrad or finance MSc or MBA if they have the choice, due to the name recognition and the network...

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#416

Post by eynsham »

patanegra wrote: post #5
abxyz wrote: post #2

pg thinks this is because of letting in poor people: https://xcancel.com/paulg/status/1969334665375813679

This is extremely unfair framing. Oxford University has been discriminating people from independent schools for a while now. To get in, you need 4 A* from an independent schools, or just 3 As from state schools. That's not "letting in poor people" as you framed it. It's letting in dumber people, worse students. Lots of that is mainly based on classism (against people from middle class), racism (against white people).…

> To get in, you need 4 A* from an independent schools

This is not, generally, true. Cambridge tends to have higher offers, and I had a friend offered 5A*+S1 (STEP), but that’s mostly because he buggered up his interview (and he was taking 5 A-levels). The standard offer at Oxford for mathematics is A*A*A, which is exactly what those applying from any public school will be asked to achieve.

> or just 3 As from state schools

Not for maths. For easy courses like PPE, someone who misses a standard offer of A*AA might be let off by a few grades. People at public schools who miss their offers are much likelier to be a bit thick.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#417

Post by OJFord »

physicsguy wrote: post #398
OJFord wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> British A Levels are far more difficult than the SAT/ACT/AP exams. I think we just teach people to pass exams, really. Not to say it's necessarily wrong - you do need a grasp of the subject matter still - just that 'how the exam works' is an additional thing you learn. I'm British, always lived here, took A levels naturally, and took SATs & ACTs too because I applied to MIT - I think I did extremely poorly. (vs. de…

Depends on the subject right? A Level Further Maths modules were (at least when I did it) typically at a very high level, and you couldn't wing them, you really needed to understand the material.

Like I said you do need a grasp of the subject matter still, but I think if the exam changed a bit to something you should technically be able to work out with the same knowledge, but isn't what's expected, a lot of people would struggle. It was always a common complaint anyway right - 'that was nothing like the past papers!' etc.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#418

Post by mensetmanusman »

afavour wrote: post #226
mensetmanusman wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oxfords name is currently being trashed globally because of this though. It sucks, but it must be dealt with. Celebrating violence against free speech doesn’t make sense for Oxford’s name to stand behind.

> Oxfords name is currently being trashed globally because of this though Entirely depends on what circles you move in. The vast majority of people, especially those outside the US, are not talking about Charlie Kirk at all. Hence my objection to him being brought up. At bare minimum it has no relevance to the ranking being discussed in this topic. > Celebrating violence against free speech doesn’t make sense for Oxf…

Supporting violence against free speech advocates is anti free speech.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#419

Post by asib »

patanegra wrote: post #377
growse wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people just need to try harder, right? Or do they need to just be luckier?

Well, yes. Everyone needs to try harder. In China, they speak about 996 (working 9am to 9pm 6 days a week; and since we speak about education, Chinese kids often learn from 7am up to 9pm, and when they are getting ready for University, they pull 12–14 hours a day consistently), in Europe, we speak about working only 4 days a week, and whether it is bad for kids to have homeworks. We all, in Europe, should speak about…

> We all, in Europe, should speak about working a bit harder. Especially those, who are not happy with where they are.

There are plenty of people who are not happy with where they are despite working hard. This "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality is cancer to the problem, it solves nothing.

Talking about a 6 day work week aspirationally is truly odd. There are parents of independent school kids who do not work 6 day weeks, I'd dare to wager many of them. It's foolish and naive to assume that grinding harder is the way to make up the difference.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#420

Post by Halan »

KaiserPro wrote: post #167
Halan wrote: post #117

It doesn’t matter. UK education is flawed already by the time a student reach tertiary. A levels leave such a gap in people that I would go as far as adding it to the reasons for the country issues. People in the UK, even if they study at Oxford, are likely more ignorant than many Europeans having done classical studies in high school.

> People in the UK, even if they study at Oxford, are likely more ignorant than many Europeans having done classical studies in high school. wait so you're saying an entire country is rubbish because oxford has a worse classics degree than an unspecified country in Europe?

I am saying that these rankings are onanistic if you factor in that post industrial education has already fucked up British education. I don’t mention which country in Europe because it could be many, most of them actually have classical studies with schools up to 18-19 where you study all the subjects.
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