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EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

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Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the PFAS rules were set in prior administrations [1]. In fact, even in the article you've linked above, the text states: > retaining its maximum contaminant levels for PFOA and PFOS but pulling back on its use of a hazard index and regulatory determinations for additional PFAS Key word being "retaining," indicating the maximum contaminant levels were already in place prior to the change mentioned here.…

Absolutely. https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2019- 02/documents/pfas_action_plan_021319_508compliant_1.pdf Trump's first term. February of 2019. Andrew Wheeler's EPA. You'll also notice that the document lays out planned action dates bleeding generously into Biden's term, and for which Biden later took credit in the document you shared. This is shameful, and sadly normal presidential behavior, taking credit fo…

> If you'd truly like to learn if you're wrong, it's recommended to seek information that disproves your hypothesis rather than proves it. Both this and the previous article I shared were very easy to find and within the first 2 or 3 results.

Firstly, this is a completely unnecessary comment. My searches were specifically regarding finding the enactment of specific PFA limits. I will acknowledge to not spending that much time looking at it, as you claimed to already have a source and I was curious to see what it was.

But to the point, this document does not outline or set limits on PFAS in drinking water. It's an action plan for measuring and creating limits, but does not itself enforce anything. In fact, every subsequent search I've done has shown that the 2024 Final Rule was the first point at which any limits were put into action.

Quoting directly, the document states that one of the steps being taken is:

> Initiating steps to evaluate the need for a maximum contaminant level (MCL) for perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) and perfluorooctane sulfonate (PFOS);

In other words, it outlines a plan for the research that is used to 1) determine if MCL should be set, and 2) what, if any, it should be set to. Notably, it does it not itself set that limit or come to a conclusion about what it should be.

Further, this research appears to be a continuation of research released in 2016 [1], which was the first time that a guideline (but not a mandate) was set. This would, of course, be prior to Trump's first administration. This is suggested in the document itself, where it outlines that this document is part of a series of actions beginning in 2015/2016, as well as callouts to specific research in the 2016 article linked below.

So the facts seem to show that: 1) The first guideline was set in 2016. It was not a law at this time. 2) Research continued to identify next steps for setting a standard, which were codified and shared in the 2019 article you linked 3) The 2024 Final Rule put a MCL into action for PFAS.

Take from that chain of events what you will, but the initial accusations of "political bias" seem unfounded here.

[1]: https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-05/documents/pf...

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that they think that the harm is being exaggerated and that the actual, non-exaggerated degree of harm does not justify putting restrictions on business and commerce I struggle to find a topic where they don't think this. It seems the burden of "proof" is too high. They don't believe in risks to health, the environment, climate, or even functional democracy itself. They think all are fake and profit is more importan…

What you say is true in general, but there are execeptions: for example, the Republicans judge the harm done by heroin, fentanyl, amphetamine and cocaine to be very high -- probably higher than the average estimate of the harm as judged by the Democrats. Ditto street crime.

My understanding (without data, sorry) is that the conservative position blames drug addiction on bad choices and evil, rather than circumstances. As well the focus is on authoritarian policing as opposed to “harm reduction”.

These are generalities, sure

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s a deep fundamental psychosis of the right wing to get the world back to “survival of the fittest”. If you die of PFAs, poverty, other pollution, well then that’s just bad luck for you. They just don’t believe in a society that cares for the weak and needy.

Survival of the fittest should apply to businesses above anything. If a business can't handle the regulations to not pollute water then it's a clear cut case. This is all the symptom of laziness of the mind. There is resistance to change, adapt and make the world a better place not just for this, but future generations. There is no leadership in the US, no vision, no drive. The excessive wealth has created a leading…

> Survival of the fittest should apply to businesses above anything. If a business can't handle the regulations to not pollute water then it's a clear cut case.

See, there you go again, over regulating free enterprise out of existence. /s

To the main point—I guess we agree. Also: the right wing political movement in the US is an amalgam of conservative religiosity and (MFing) libertarianism. It’s frantic and fear-driven.

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#414
post #4

Does anyone know why this is done? What is the reasoning here? Is this defendable in any way?

If you view all this through the lens of the goal of administration being to weaken the US both internally and as a world power, it all comes much more clearly into focus. Then it can be seen as no longer a disparate collection of seemingly random political, social, and economic moves, but rather as a directed, intentional movement.

> If you view all this through the lens of the goal of administration being to weaken the US both internally and as a world power, it all comes much more clearly into focus.

And why would they want to do that?

Bonus challenge: Without relying on antisemetic tropes

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are PFAS's a by-product of stuff like teflon and plastic production and the like? I know big oil is evil but I'm not sure that they're the boogieman in this case.

In this specific case, no they aren't the main villain. They are more the catalyst that turned the republican party into the anti-environment party (and thus anti-clean water). The EPA regulating PFAS means it can also regulate the effects of fracking. That's the context to understand how Republicans went from the Nixon party who created the EPA to today's party that hates all parts of the EPA.

Yeah, no argument there. Spending decades trying to undermine the EPA has other consequences.

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#416
post #4

Does anyone know why this is done? What is the reasoning here? Is this defendable in any way?

It's a response to municipality associations' requests. People appear to have forgotten that Trump's EPA created these rules in his first term. Here is a summary directly from the organization pushing for this. https://www.awwa.org/AWWA-Articles/epa-announces-changes-to-...

Trump's EPA introduces new rules: i sleep

Trump's EPA pulls back the rules they themselves introduced: "This is proof Donald Trump is trying to weaken this country"

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#417

The State of California is moving in the exact opposite direction: banning these things completely. https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/california-lawmakers-propos...

I am suddenly quite bullish on California real estate. The “good people” will flock from all around the world so that they can be in one place with the other “good people”. It’s about shared values. California will be the last refuge for people around the world who have these shared values.

> California will be the last refuge for people around the world who have these shared values.

You'll be glad to hear it already is!

Now please stick to your containment zone, and NEVER leave. We have enough of your ilk that have fled to neighboring states already.

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2019- 02/documents/pfas_action_plan_021319_508compliant_1.pdf Trump's first term. February of 2019. Andrew Wheeler's EPA. You'll also notice that the document lays out planned action dates bleeding generously into Biden's term, and for which Biden later took credit in the document you shared. This is shameful, and sadly normal presidential behavior, taking credit fo…

> If you'd truly like to learn if you're wrong, it's recommended to seek information that disproves your hypothesis rather than proves it. Both this and the previous article I shared were very easy to find and within the first 2 or 3 results. Firstly, this is a completely unnecessary comment. My searches were specifically regarding finding the enactment of specific PFA limits. I will acknowledge to not spending that…

You've lost sight of the comment I responded to, in which the poster asserts, in so many words, that there can be no explanation for easing any restrictions other than for profit and authoritarianism, etc. Right? Clearly there is an explanation if you search for a few minutes. So I stand by my allegations of bias against that comment specifically.

Here, you've read and revised the approach to the issue. This last comment does not warrant any allegation of bias, and I make none about it.

The bigger picture is that both parties are interested in clean drinking water. I guess that's obvious to me, and I'm shocked that's not obvious to everyone. Look how many people on this thread actually believe that the Trump administration is literally trying to poison them. That's not crazy to you? It is to me.

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#419

At this point we should just create programs to promote RO filtration at home. If it's not lead then it's PFAS or some other thing. Then we have the issues with the chlorine and chloramine byproducts inhernet even in properly treated water - stuff that we already know as possible, probable, or known carcinogens.

Sounds like a band-aid solution for bad governance.

It sounds like a great way to reduce the standard further with the justification that RO will solve the problems, leaving an even wider class divide having clean drinking water, creating haves and have nots in something so basic it's part of the table stakes to be considered a civilized country.

I say this knowing that many developed nations still struggle with this in specific circumstances, but it shouldn't be an issue nation wide.

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#420
post #377

The State of California is moving in the exact opposite direction: banning these things completely. https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/california-lawmakers-propos...

> The Cookware Sustainability Alliance, an industry group formed by major cookware companies, urged lawmakers to oppose the bill. “The proposal risks taking safe, affordable, and reliable kitchen essentials off the shelves, leaving customers with fewer options for the products they use every day,” the group said in a statement. > The alliance says PFAS is a category that includes some chemicals—such as fluoropolymers…

Do restaurants even use Teflon? I get the sense that most restaurants use stainless steel, carbon steel, or cast iron for practically everything, because nonstick pans will last all of a week under heavy use.

(And if you’re a good cook, you definitely don’t need nonstick for an omlette.)

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