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The treasury is expanding the Patriot Act to attack Bitcoin self custody

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Re: The treasury is expanding the Patriot Act to attack Bitcoin self custody

#411

Post by feoren »

xp84 wrote: post #364
yujzgzc wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that's a problem for a lot of libertarian minded tech, it starts being thought of as enabling freedom from oppressive governments and ends up being adopted by criminals - Bitcoin, Tor, etc. In the tech industry you also find a bend of very economically self interested version of privacy, which is that giving privacy to your users is a great way to claim you didn't know anything bad was happening. I'm pretty…

> starts being thought of as enabling freedom from oppressive governments and ends up being adopted by criminals - Bitcoin, Tor, etc Yes. Both are real facets of this type of tech. For all the handwringing about "but what if fascism" that we have here in the US, I'm pretty sure 90% of the actual worries American cryptocurrency users have in their hearts is either about tax evasion, money laundering, or using crypto t…

> If someone has made bitcoin transactions to say, donate to EFF, Planned Parenthood or ACLU, I would take a bet of 5 Bitcoin that he isn't going to be imprisoned for that fact in this country. Yes, even though Trump is President.

Yet. They want to execute people for being trans in Florida, by separately passing laws that child abusers get executed, and that being trans == child abuse. It's not hyperbolic to worry that donating to a trans rights organization could make you a governmental target. Scammers might steal some of my money, but they're not going to abduct me off the street into unmarked vans in front of my kids.

Re: The treasury is expanding the Patriot Act to attack Bitcoin self custody

#413

Post by derbOac »

TheGRS wrote: post #315

I have deep disagreements with my father on this subject. He worked as a federal agent for 30 years, mostly in digital forensics. He does not believe in the right to privacy in any of the same ways I do. Whereas I believe a right to privacy in your tools and communication is essential, he believes they infringe on the government's ability to catch criminals. Classic justification of "if you're not a bad guy, what do…

No offense to your father but I've always felt like the "innocent until proven guilty" philosophy is expansive and fundamental privacy rights are part of that principle. That is, the underlying principle isn't "innocent until proven guilty" but something more akin to "your complete autonomy should be assumed by default, and the government should have to clear an extremely high threshold to constrain it".

I also really believe that this raises the bar for everyone. If the government has to work harder to prove your guilt, the case is all that much stronger when the threshold is met.

I'm probably preaching to the choir but I increasingly see arguments to the contrary as boiling down to "make things so the executive branch of the government doesn't have to work as hard" which I don't find compelling as a societal value.

Re: The treasury is expanding the Patriot Act to attack Bitcoin self custody

#414

Post by teiferer »

swinglock wrote: post #393
tchock23 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes Bitcoin maximalists ultimately see it as a means of transaction. The ones I come across in the wild are purely maximalists for speculative purposes and couldn’t care less about the “practical” use cases for it.

Being able to transact is the point of it all. If practical use is not possible that makes it useless and that makes it worthless.

This has never been the main use outside an unrealistic dream world. Its main purposes are speculation and ponzi-like scams.

Re: The treasury is expanding the Patriot Act to attack Bitcoin self custody

#415

Post by ASalazarMX »

stavros wrote: post #106
htoiertoi345345 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"USA Freedom Act" We're truly living in Orwell's world.

Uniting and Strengthening America by Fulfilling Rights and Ensuring Effective Discipline Over Monitoring Act. It's just an acronym bro, don't get all worked up about it, now let's go down, the Two Minutes' Hate is about to start.

It's a deception, something that should have no place in law coding.

Re: The treasury is expanding the Patriot Act to attack Bitcoin self custody

#416

Post by feoren »

deadbabe wrote: post #329
TheGRS wrote: post #315

I have deep disagreements with my father on this subject. He worked as a federal agent for 30 years, mostly in digital forensics. He does not believe in the right to privacy in any of the same ways I do. Whereas I believe a right to privacy in your tools and communication is essential, he believes they infringe on the government's ability to catch criminals. Classic justification of "if you're not a bad guy, what do…

No one ever answers the “what do you have to hide” question, which is a little sus.

Okay, so reply with your credit card numbers, links to all your cell phone photos, your DNA test results, your passwords, and your medical history. What do you have to hide?

You: "But you are randos on the internet, not the government!"

So I can get any of that from anyone if I just bribe the right government official? Or if I want that info for nefarious purposes I just have to get hired at the right agency? Or I can lobby to get a law passed that says everyone with the sequence "GATTACA" at a particular site on chromosome 7 is inherently evil and must be locked away for the public good? (Oh, what a surprise, it turns out that DNA sequence is incredibly common only for your particular race, huh.) Or if you're a celebrity, any cop can demand to search your phone without a warrant and get all of your private photos to sell to tabloids? You're genuinely ok with all of this? You find people who are concerned about these things suspicious?

Laws change. People in power do not always have your best interests at heart.

Re: The treasury is expanding the Patriot Act to attack Bitcoin self custody

#417

Post by warkdarrior »

nunobrito wrote: post #166
bilsbie wrote: post #127

I always wonder why monero isn’t more popular?

Overton window. There is a lot of funding for youtube influencers to play with casino coins that are transparent and traceable. Those are basically looking for "money goes up" and don't really care about the crypto part. Monero is only on the news for negative reasons when someone tries to bring it down or delists from yet another exchange. There isn't funding to make it popular, which I guess in the end it is really…

That's a long-winded explanation of the fact that most people don't care about Monero's privacy benefits, so the only way Monero will be more popular is if someone funds a marketing campaign for it.

Re: The treasury is expanding the Patriot Act to attack Bitcoin self custody

#418

Post by carodgers »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #266
Mouvelie wrote: post #181

I feel like growing up is realizing that the government is just a big gang. They do what they want and will enforce with menace what they want. They can change the rules, take your stuff and it ain't stealing because they said so. Sigh.

On the other hand you get to vote who is in the gang. So choose wisely.

You only get two options for each vote, and there is no reason that one or both of the options would need to be aware of or be in favor of an acceptable solution to the given problem. In fact, the chance of that happening is vanishingly small.

Re: The treasury is expanding the Patriot Act to attack Bitcoin self custody

#419

Post by feoren »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #372
deadbabe wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one ever answers the “what do you have to hide” question, which is a little sus.

> No one ever answers the “what do you have to hide” question, which is a little sus. Poe's Law strikes again, but for reference there are even several major categories: Some things are nobody's business. If you have religious parents and you're gay, you may not want them to know that, even if your religious parents work for the government. People have proprietary secrets. A drug company or tech company can't be spen…

This is a great list. I would add:

- Megacorporations cozying up to government in exchange for access to this information, for a competitive advantage, targeted advertising, etc. Lawmakers will bend over backward for corporations if they are promised "job creation" in their districts, or it could be lobbying or even straight-up bribery. We have a sitting supreme court member who openly takes bribes and he's suffered no consequences for it. It's not hard to imagine data the government collected in a giant dragnet being shared with generous campaign contributors.

- Laws changing to target an out-group. Remember how the government was keenly interested in people's period-tracking apps so they could imprison people who they suspected had an abortion? It doesn't matter whether your private data could incriminate you now, it's dangerous if it could incriminate you from any future government that is hostile to you.

Re: The treasury is expanding the Patriot Act to attack Bitcoin self custody

#420

Post by photonthug »

jordanb wrote: post #349
photonthug wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To know the answers to all of these questions, you should really check out the Behind the Bastards podcast because that is the whole premise. Covering the lead-up to horrible situations and the inevitable slide in fascism. It's insanely detailed about covering many, many stupid fascist bastards and a few smart ones.

That's a good podcast that gets across that most of the Nazis really were just dense thugs. One thing that it doesn't really cover is the rest of German society and how those thugs managed to get power. Weimer Germany was run by the social democrats. These people were basically 'center left.' They ended up in control after the 1919 revolution that got rid of the Kaiser, and ruled via coalition government with other c…

> One thing that it doesn't really cover is the rest of German society and how those thugs managed to get power.

Just to clarify for other folks, there are many episodes re: Nazis, but it also covers everything from Khmer Rouge to more modern coverage that's truly the more banal kind of evil, covering the worst and most destructive grifters. So while it's definitely kinda preoccupied with fascism, there's another through-line with dis/misinformation, etc etc.

I do agree with your basic criticism though, fair to say the general show format for dictators is 1st part bio which is frequently unremarkable, then the 2nd part is appalling crimes. How society was complicit/tolerant enough to allow the decline to happen is usually sidelined. On the other hand though, it's kind of always the same and pretty simple. To the extent it's not simply hidden or covered up, it works like this. After things are definitely very shitty, whatever misguided optimism folks can muster is usually all about "harming the out-group will help somehow!". (It doesn't.)

But the astute dictator (or their advisors) can rely on and exploit that kind of tribalism. Common sense, static value-systems, or any sensitivity to blatantly hypocritical statements/behaviour etc just are not things that the common person can really hang on to once they are angry/impoverished/aggrieved/hungry

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