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Framework Laptop 16

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Re: Framework Laptop 16

#411

Post by Night_Thastus »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #356
Night_Thastus wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like it or not, Nvidia is the dominant player in the GPU space. They have objectively the most powerful GPUs and the best support for development (CUDA). It would be cutting out a massive chunk of Framework's potential customers to not even offer Nvidia GPUs. I don't like Nvidia at all, they're a scummy company. But just offering their products as an option is not "openly hostile and offensive" to Linux users. That's…

Not really. Until modern times, Intel was the largest GPU manufacture, unless you include phones, then it was Qualcomm. Now it's AMD, between computers, consoles, and the datacenter. DGPUs for the desktop aren't really all that relevant for either AMD and NV's bottom lines, they're not major sellers. Switch sales also aren't enough to compete with combined Xbox/Playstation sales. A lot of claims of NV's superiority i…

Calling Intel the largest GPU manufacturer is a bit of a joke.

Yes, technically they make many by volume. But they are very limited integrated GPUs. Fine for basic encoding/decoding operations, not really practical outside of browsing and e-mail checking.

AMD has been doing fantastic in the mobile and console space, I admit that. Their products are decently energy efficient and powerful for what they are. But they're struggling to keep up with the leading edge and their market share is tanking because of it.

Nvidia has a 92% market share in the discrete GPU market, with AMD holding 8% and Intel 0%.

That is not a healthy spread.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#413

Post by simpaticoder »

akho wrote: post #405
simpaticoder wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I'm not normally in the habit of upgrading the kernel independently of the distribution, but it's worth trying. Thanks for the tip.

On earlier kernels, `acpi_osi="!Windows 2020"` was often recommended. Though I'm note sure what it does. `nvme.noacpi=1` should be on, too, for all kernels. (all derived from the nixos-hardware repo; I use that)

Thanks. I upgraded the kernel (had to turn off secure boot to do it), and set the nvme kernel option, too. So far no unwanted side-effects, but it's too soon to say if it fixed the problem.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#414

Post by cuddlybacon »

kristianp wrote: post #281

You've got a 16 inch Laptop, why are the arrow keys so tiny! And where's the PgUp PgDn Home End Insert Delete cluster? I wish a design-based shop like Framework would have some leadership in the keyboard area. This is why I have been exclusively Thinkpads for my last 3 laptops. Something more niche is that I also enjoy the mouse buttons above the trackpad, I can move with the thumb and click with a finger.

> Something more niche is that I also enjoy the mouse buttons above the trackpad, I can move with the thumb and click with a finger.

This logic is why I like the tiny arrow keys. I find it pretty easy to move my pinky over and tap one of those keys. With full size keys, I find that doesn't really work.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#415

Post by DiabloD3 »

account42 wrote: post #389
DiabloD3 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Until modern times, Intel was the largest GPU manufacture, unless you include phones, then it was Qualcomm. Now it's AMD, between computers, consoles, and the datacenter. DGPUs for the desktop aren't really all that relevant for either AMD and NV's bottom lines, they're not major sellers. Switch sales also aren't enough to compete with combined Xbox/Playstation sales. A lot of claims of NV's superiority i…

NV's real superiority is developer market share. Too many things are developed for Nvidia first with other options an afterthought if supported at all.

Most things are developed for standardized APIs, not any specific vendor.

For things that are hyperoptimized for a specific vendor, it is usually for AMD, not Nvidia, because most of that time spent optimizing is not done for enterprise compute (as _very little_ optimization is done, companies just buy more GPUs instead of writing better software, under the mistaken belief that developer time is more expensive than GPU TCO) but for game engines.

Game engines that are highly optimized for hardware are doing it for the consoles, both of which are AMD.

The only thing superior about NV is their marketing department.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#416

Post by DiabloD3 »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #411
DiabloD3 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Until modern times, Intel was the largest GPU manufacture, unless you include phones, then it was Qualcomm. Now it's AMD, between computers, consoles, and the datacenter. DGPUs for the desktop aren't really all that relevant for either AMD and NV's bottom lines, they're not major sellers. Switch sales also aren't enough to compete with combined Xbox/Playstation sales. A lot of claims of NV's superiority i…

Calling Intel the largest GPU manufacturer is a bit of a joke. Yes, technically they make many by volume. But they are very limited integrated GPUs. Fine for basic encoding/decoding operations, not really practical outside of browsing and e-mail checking. AMD has been doing fantastic in the mobile and console space, I admit that. Their products are decently energy efficient and powerful for what they are. But they're…

It isn't a "bit of a joke" when the graphics teams behind normal desktop apps and browsers put more work into making sure the thing works on Intel than they have for AMD and Nvidia. They know what the majority of users use.

Nobody cares if Nvidia sells lots of DGPUs if ye average Fortune 500 company isn't deploying devices with DGPUs in them and the app they're paying a million dollars a year for suddenly breaks on Intel.

People need to remember that there is an entire world of computing outside of datacenters and high performance desktops.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#417

Post by utbabya »

Given the 2.1kg after detaching the graphic module and the seemingly large battery capacity for on the go sessions, it's so close to a laptop that fits all my use cases.

Although from what I've read 8GB of VRAM seems insufficiently near-future proof, so I've always been eyeing 5070ti+ laptops. I wonder if there's any technical blocker that prevents offering 5070ti or the amd equivalent.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#418

Post by DanOpcode »

Moomoomoo309 wrote: post #409
DanOpcode wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last 3 laptops have also been Thinkpads. In addition to the mouse buttons above the trackpad, I also enjoy Thinkpad's trackpoint. Too bad Framework doesn't offer any mouse buttons and trackpoint on their keyboards, otherwise I might have considered them.

The company actually put a video out a yesterday or the day before about adding a trackpoint - they're open to the idea, but they're all too tall! They actually tried to add it, but it always put pressure on the screen because their keyboards are too low-profile to accommodate one.

I watched that video yesterday. Too bad. I'm glad they have looked into it at least. But too bad that Lenovo is able to build laptops with a trackpoint but not them. I don't see myself using a touchpad again if I can avoid it, so I'm afraid I will keep using ThinkPads for the foreseeable future.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#419

Post by codr7 »

tracker1 wrote: post #194
codr7 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they were complete trash in comparison to the ones on ThinkPads imo.

I don't think more modern ThinkPads are much better... they have a shorter keyboard depth than the earlier models and the feel overall is significantly reduced... I understand as most people don't generally want a "thick" notebook.

I agree, they used to be a lot better.

The beefier business line models are still decent though.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#420

Post by yellowapple »

jijijijij wrote: post #298
cromka wrote: post #291

I personally just cannot accept that there’s no WWAN option available. Tethering with your phone is just nowhere close to what one would expect out of it in 2025.

A WWAN modem surely would fit into the IO module form factor, no? The framework 16 got 6 slots. Seems like the way to go.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet. Especially for a convertible like the Framework 12, a WWAN option seems like an obvious win - and I know there are existing USB WWAN adapters out there.
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