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Exit Tax: Leave Germany before your business gets big

eidel.io

411–420 of 567 posts

Re: Exit Tax: Leave Germany before your business gets big

#411
post #327
post #126

The crazy thing is that as a business owner (GmbH/AG) you can’t even move to another EU country any more since 2022. As the owner of such a company it feels like I have become a slave of the government.

You should probably look up what the word "slave" is about, and you'll probably realize that it refers to a situation very different from yours.

[deleted]

Re: Exit Tax: Leave Germany before your business gets big

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way does inequality break society? I’ve frequently heard this article of faith bandied about. But if the rich get 10X richer, and the poor get 2X richer, then everybody is better off. The stagnant, ultraconservative, ultracentralized economic systems tankies like to propose always end up leaving everyone 100X poorer. But at least they’re equal, right!? Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

> But if the rich get 10X richer, and the poor get 2X richer, then everybody is better off. If the rich get 10x richer, prices will rise by more than 2x, leaving everybody but the rich worse off.

These numbers are always given on a "real" basis, accounting for inflation.

Inflation is hard to measure because products get better and houses get bigger over time. But by every measure I've ever seen, purchasing power per hour worked has been going up exponentially or at least geometrically for 200 years now.

If you don't believe this, the World Bank, the IMF, and the US Federal Reserve publish reams of statistics about it.

Re: Exit Tax: Leave Germany before your business gets big

#413
post #187

It’s not as crazy as it initially seems. It’s because of a fundamental difference between how capital gains tax and income tax are collected. Capital gains are deferred - so as years pass you’re working up a tax liability but most countries recognize that forcing collection every year is not practical given the often illiquid nature of capital gains and the difficulty around valuation. I’m from a country which has no…

Capital gain tax is stupid anyway. It's one of the first tax that should be removed. You can tax business at home by land/revenue/resources usage/ip protection taxes. As it is owners in different jurisdictions pay a different (or sometimes no) tax on selling shares. Selling itself is something you want to encourage, not discourage. It's a pointless tax that penalizes exactly the things you want to encourage. You thin…

IMO corporate income tax is the first that should be removed, with a corresponding shift to income taxes. Those can be as progressive as you want, have much lower compliance costs, and don’t distort behavior in the same way. Thought in practice I’m not sure how tax collection from foreign owners would work.

Re: Exit Tax: Leave Germany before your business gets big

#414

I think the numbers in the article are mixed up. Earnings 200k. Wage 120k. So the profit is 80k for the calculation. 80×13,75=1.100k. 60% of it = 660k. Personal tax at 120k income = 45%. More likely less as for health insurance, etc. 660k×45% = 297k exit tax. Which can be paid in 7 yearly rates. So 42k per year. You still have a company that has earnings of 200k.

Just because it made 200k last few years doesn't mean it will continue to make that much. That is especially true in case of small companies.

Keep in mind there are two methods for taxation: the simplified earnings value method (13.75 factor) or the actual unrealized profit of the business. If you believe your company will not be profitable in the future because you’re moving away, you could wind it down — but you’d still end up paying the same taxes on the unrealized gain.

Re: Exit Tax: Leave Germany before your business gets big

#415
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Remember that in Germany you don't pay for University degrees. High education isn't just for a wealthy minority.

That doesn't make the degree worthless, surely

Sure. I just want to say that your educated workforce is part of the infrastructure provided by the "evil" government.

Re: Exit Tax: Leave Germany before your business gets big

#416

I was someone who almost got hit by this tax. You don't need any offshore shenanigans to get around it. If you just want to move out of the country you can also just keep the ownership of the company within the country. You do this by putting your shares into a holding that stays in Germany even when you move out. That holding needs to be managed within Germany, so you need to assign a friend or be in Germany twice a…

At some point wouldn’t it just be simpler to set up your company in the first place in some other EU country with less onerous laws?

If you know this in advance, sure. But I guess the author of the article found out about this the hard way.

On the other hand, no one expects to pay "an exit tax from a country".

Re: Exit Tax: Leave Germany before your business gets big

#418
post #294

Or you could pay your fair share to contribute back to the country that supported you initially by providing education, labour, infrastructure, etc. The moment we talk about piracy it's all about how poor billionaires will have to sleep in their cars if you make a digital copy of something you would not have otherwise bought, but when it comes to supporting the society that created you and your wealth, suddenly it's…

It is quite funny how exactly the current amount of taxes being requested by the local government is magically "fair." Although, of course, if taxes were raised, I'm sure you would still call that "fair." And countries where taxes are lower...well, the citizens must be scamming their government, I guess?

Re: Exit Tax: Leave Germany before your business gets big

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget the energy suicide Germany has committed. Cheap energy was the backbone of Germanys rich industrial economy, and that rug has been (allowed and even encouraged) to be pulled by none other than the country now offering them a “very good price” on LNG…

Did you miss the Russo-Ukrainian war? Or are you suggesting that we (Europeans) should have continued pumping cash into Russia for a bunch of gas?

No, but I think that diplomacy layer did a horrible job in stopping that conflict early. They signed the Minsk agreements just to ignore them later

Re: Exit Tax: Leave Germany before your business gets big

#420
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if all your money is tied up in your company you have to sell part of your business in order to be allowed to leave the country and by the way thanks for creating all those jobs? Sounds slightly CCP to me.

China doesn’t have an exit tax.

China doesn't allow its citizens to send or invest money abroad hardly at all. Yes, this means that most of the Chinese who bought houses in the US and Canada were breaking Chinese law.

One cause of China's real-estate bubble was too much (domestic) savings chasing too few investment vehicles.

To learn more, read up on financial repression in China.

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