Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses • Hacker News Board

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#411

Post by sisosooss » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 12:48 AM UTC

zarzavat wrote: post #254

cedws wrote: post #116

I live in Tokyo at the moment. I get the overtourism thing, because after you've been here even just a little while (months) you start to have a disdain for tourists that do tourist things. Like breaking the rules, being a nuisance, swarming parts of the city. I don't know what can be done about it though. Japan's economy is in trouble, and the tourist money helps and hurts at the same time. It creates tax revenue, y…

> And I hold no hard feelings toward them for that. But isn't that why Japan ended up like this? Every country needs either immigration or babies, and Japan chose option C: neither. And now the decision has been made for them, a very high dose of immigration is required. It's like ignoring a cavity and eventually needing a root canal. Xenophobia is simply an unworkable idea, like eugenics and other discredited belief…

> Xenophobia is simply an unworkable idea

Xenophobia was the default for nearly all of human history and core to nearly all successful societies. How is it unworkable?

At its core it’s the same idea as “trust is earned, not given”.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#412

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 12:56 AM UTC

kondro wrote: post #397

Argonaut998 wrote: post #167

I felt awful about being in Kyoto last year. Had I known how bad it was for the locals I would never have went. I can’t imagine how frustrated and angry if my home town was the same. The infrastructure can’t support the number of tourists unlike Tokyo. Locals can’t even get a bus without them being completely full to the brim all the day long. It’s 100% social media. It’s the most vapid thing in the entire world. It…

Kyoto, a city that literally almost went bankrupt during COVID due to lack of tourism.

Municipal bankruptcy is a medium-term problem, but as we're seeing, the dose makes the poison. Suffocating under an excess of tourism is arguably worse than a shortage of it, which could be replaced by other sorts of economic activity.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#413

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 1:10 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #333

returningfory2 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle to believe this. How can the average Korean tell the difference between a white American and a white Brit?

language/accent obviously, dress, manners and also English people in particular look distinct physically given that most white Americans are more likely to have Northwestern European ancestry. The stereotypical "American white guy" would have an easier time on Swedish or German TV than joining the cast of Peaky Blinders

[deleted]

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#414

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 1:11 AM UTC

sisosooss wrote: post #408

anigbrowl wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help observing that Britain established a global empire (so vast in scope that they could truthfully say the sun never set upon it, until quite recently) and made it clear to the countries they colonized that Britain, and particularly England, was the center of civilization. We're surrounded by the artefacts of this empire, from Imperial measurements in the USA to Greenwich Mean time being the default timezon…

[flagged]

I'm impressed that you created an account specifically to be so shallow and oblivious.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#415

Post by deaddodo » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 1:16 AM UTC

returningfory2 wrote: post #278

deaddodo wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This rule applies to most confucian/communal East Asian societies with individuals from the West. People aren't idiots, they realize cultures differ, so they're willing to give some slack; especially, with a culture they're somewhat familiar with through media (the US, for instance). With Japan and Korea (especially the latter) towards Americans, there's also a soft-unspoken rule (that sort of goes both ways) due to…

I struggle to believe this. How can the average Korean tell the difference between a white American and a white Brit?

If you’re integrating/being an “expat” in a society, you’re going to develop familiarity. The “average” Korean won’t know anything about you and continue to just treat you like a tourist (unless you speak fluent Korean), but your social and professional circle won’t. You can’t go very far into relationships in a foreign country without people knowing your background.

Less importantly but somewhat obvious: many Koreans are fairly competent in English and familiar with common American accents. They’ll know pretty quickly if you aren’t speaking with one.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#416

Post by agnishom » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 1:24 AM UTC

cedws wrote: post #116

I live in Tokyo at the moment. I get the overtourism thing, because after you've been here even just a little while (months) you start to have a disdain for tourists that do tourist things. Like breaking the rules, being a nuisance, swarming parts of the city. I don't know what can be done about it though. Japan's economy is in trouble, and the tourist money helps and hurts at the same time. It creates tax revenue, y…

> going to go through a difficult period of cultural erosion

I am not sure what cultural erosion you speak of. I am sure Japanese culture won't be replaced by a cultural vacuum. Japanese culture has evolved for centuries, both under external influences and because of its internal dynamics.

Many modern beloved Japanese cultural assets were formed in such manner, as noted in this article: https://archive.md/2c1WI

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#417

Post by agnishom » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 1:32 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #37

paulgerhardt wrote: post #14

Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit). Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physi…

Snack bars (the seedier bars you talk about) have always had a policy of no foreigners. In fact, I think it’s just in the standard snacks bar sign template.

That may be true, but I don't think that's what they were talking about. They were talking about fairly normal izakayas

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#418

Post by agnishom » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 1:36 AM UTC

olalonde wrote: post #98

Seems like a long winded version of "No one goes there anymore anyways, its too crowded".

How can you have "its too crowded" and "no one goes there" at the same time?

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#419

Post by anarticle » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 1:45 AM UTC

diggan wrote: post #77

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no foreigners It's such a contrast to USA, where I doubt that such a thing would even be legal. And also the bit about no tattoos. That's lawsuit city.

> That's lawsuit city Aren't private businesses in the US allowed to deny access to their premises for any reasons? Seems like a weird thing to get sued over, I think in most places if you own the local, you get to decide who goes there, unless it's a place for government or similar.

Yes! I was a bouncer for a while here in Philadelphia, and our bar/dancefloor had a rule on St. Patricks day: If you're wearing any green, you can't come in.

Worked great, never had any problems on St. Patricks day.

"You can go to any other bar in the city, just not this one."

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#420

Post by the_af » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 1:50 AM UTC

timr wrote: post #388

the_af wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is the advice "do not visit Japan, learn about it from books and the internet"? Or just pretend it doesn't exist? Maybe do the same with all other countries? The Japanese in turn do a lot of tourism abroad, to the point the "Japanese tourist" is as much a stereotype as the American one. Should they stay put and not leave their home towns?

It's pretty amazing that you've managed to both take the least-charitable interpretation of my comment, and apply a dated stereotype of Japanese people in one post. So: 1) There is a whole spectrum of alternatives between "do not go" and "go take selfies in the same TikTok dead zones as everyone else, while drinking overpriced matcha boba tea and eating potato spiral on a stick from a Mario kart." Perhaps do somethin…

But TikTok and Mario Kart tours are just one form of tourism, which you're equating to all tourism that is not living there for some months or doing volunteer work or, I quote your other comment, "going to conferences" (the hell?).

Why not visit Japan and do sightseeing? Or do you think that's automatically equivalent to Mario Kart tours?

Or like someone else argued (not you, I'm not laying this particular burden on you, just mentioning it because the sentiment is similar) "it's clear cut that it's unethical to do tourism in Barcelona". What!? Well, excuse me if I cannot live in Barcelona permanently or spend 6 months there getting to know the locals, does it mean I should just see Barcelona in the movies? Or maybe just go to Disneyland, since apparently it's all the same thing.

Re: the stereotype, it's true I don't know about Japanese tourists in the last couple of years (let's say post COVID), but if that's because of the yen blah blah then that's no defense of the stereotypical Japanese tourist -- it has nothing to do with ethics if it's just that they cannot afford it anymore. And anyway, the obnoxious Japanese tourist exist(ed) and it was common in my country, so why give them a free pass just because this article mentions the kind of tourism that bothers them?

In any case: tourism isn't necessarily evil. You can simply not be the loud careless tourist who trashes everything, is not respectful and complains about everything. A lot of us cannot spend 3 months doing volunteer work or whatever, we just want to see the world and enjoy its wonders in the 2-week or so vacation we get once a year, and planning for the whole family, not just for a single person in their 20s with no attachments and who can backpack the world for a year or whatever.