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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#411

Post by threatofrain »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #138

I deplore the fact that schools need to resort to banning phones. When I was younger I imagined a world in which computing devices would be a boon to (young) people everywhere. But many apps appear to be detrimental to people's mental health, both young and old. Possibly this can be changed. Maybe separate app stores are a solution (think f-droid)? Or maybe we need to start looking a lot harder at apps that might act…

I don't think it's the quantity of apps that are the problem. Khan Academy is famous by now. There are world-class education apps, it's just that education apps have never taken off that much. The problem is in the competition for your joy, some apps win and some apps lose.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#412

Post by jajko »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

So your daughter is using basic indestructible Nokia with endless battery, correct?

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#413

Post by vichle »

seanw444 wrote: post #377
nabla9 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you understand that's just cute wording. Individual rights exist only as far as they are protected by others. If you are robbed and nobody goes after the robber, the right to property does not de facto exist. The government must take an action.

The government doesn't need to take action when I already shot him dead, because they didn't infringe on my already-existing right to keep and bear arms. The "cute wording" is important because the mindset matters. If enough of the population believes that rights are permitted to a person, they will attempt to revoke the permission. If they believe that rights are fundamental and inalienable, they wouldn't dare to th…

If you think that you have a right to shoot someone in the head, you're fucking nuts. Period. Go see a shrink.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#414

Post by standardUser »

Gormo wrote: post #196
nabla9 wrote: post #150

It had to be a law because children are people in Finland and most Nordic countries with rights that adults just can't take away. Current legislation allows the teacher to tell a student to put their phone away in a pocket or backpack, for example, where it will not be a distraction. The use of phones during breaks cannot be completely banned, as students have fundamental rights. The Constitution guarantees everyone…

> It had to be a law because children are people in Finland and most Nordic countries with rights that adults just can't take away. It's a strange concept to hold that there are rights that can't be taken away, but then take them away merely by passing legislation.

No more strange than existing laws being reimagined to provide rights for those previously denied them. The strange idea would be that rights are cosmic and unchanging and not the result of a constant negotiation between individuals, groups and the state.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#415

Post by hackyhacky »

psunavy03 wrote: post #408
malcolmgreaves wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> current government is pushing the limits The Republicans* are. Important to be factually accurate here’s the Democrats have never done anything remotely this lawless and authoritarian before.

. . . aside from supporting slavery and then the Dixiecrats opposing civil rights, you mean? If you actually look at American history, the ugly parts are ultimately bipartisan.

> . . . aside from supporting slavery and then the Dixiecrats opposing civil rights, you mean? If you actually look at American history, the ugly parts are ultimately bipartisan.

You are really pushing both-sides-ism to its limits.

It goes without saying that if you have to go back that far in history to find an analogy to today's abuse of power, you are proving GP's point: the lawlessness of the Republican party is unprecedented in modern history.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#416

Post by jajko »

ethbr1 wrote: post #204
ecshafer wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those reasons can be solved with her using a public phone. My school growing up had a phone in the hallway by the main office for those reasons.

As part of the last generation to grow up without phones in (early) school, this. The endless rationalizing of why kids need to have phones at every moment rings hollow... Because grade school kids actually did just fine without them. Things functioned, people got where they needed to get, emergencies were handled, etc. Especially with pre- and post-school access, we're balancing a minimum of in-school utility agains…

Its basically shitty parenting disguised with 'we care' and similar arguments as mentioned. Lets not forget about pedophile scare, that should convert the last remaining parents and make sure opposition is silent.

We raise kids mostly without screens (just some short old school cartoons on TV before bed if they behave well). Its harder, but kids behave much better compared to most peers (which can have 1000s of reasons and some out of our control, I know). We also limit sweet stuff, eat tons of veggies (so they do too and ie love broccoli, not sure where the proverbial hate comes from... maybe lack of basic cooking skills?). But the key is we eat same stuff, healthy food can be very tasty easily. We lay them down to sleep pretty early too.

Simply restrict highly addictive stuff, be it in food or behavioral like screens. It has no place when growing up, no matter how folks wrap it as a need. It forms neural pathways that are extremely hard to shed for rest of their lives, no need to fuck them up properly for life before they have a chance to forge their own path and make their own choices.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#417

Post by DanHulton »

Gormo wrote: post #196
nabla9 wrote: post #150

It had to be a law because children are people in Finland and most Nordic countries with rights that adults just can't take away. Current legislation allows the teacher to tell a student to put their phone away in a pocket or backpack, for example, where it will not be a distraction. The use of phones during breaks cannot be completely banned, as students have fundamental rights. The Constitution guarantees everyone…

> It had to be a law because children are people in Finland and most Nordic countries with rights that adults just can't take away. It's a strange concept to hold that there are rights that can't be taken away, but then take them away merely by passing legislation.

I think it was phrased incorrectly and that's leading to this confusion.

More accurately, I think, it's that children have rights under the law that must be respected. This changes the law and sets specific situations where these rights are specifically restricted. Outside of those situations, those rights still must be respected!

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#419

Post by tristor »

vichle wrote: post #413
seanw444 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government doesn't need to take action when I already shot him dead, because they didn't infringe on my already-existing right to keep and bear arms. The "cute wording" is important because the mindset matters. If enough of the population believes that rights are permitted to a person, they will attempt to revoke the permission. If they believe that rights are fundamental and inalienable, they wouldn't dare to th…

If you think that you have a right to shoot someone in the head, you're fucking nuts. Period. Go see a shrink.

> If you think that you have a right to shoot someone in the head, you're fucking nuts. Period. Go see a shrink.

To defend your life, liberty, and property you absolutely do have that right in most of the civilized world. Some places may put restriction on your ability to access a firearm, but self-defense is a basic necessity to have /any/ human rights. That said, I agree, trying to shoot someone in the head /is/ crazy, you should always aim for center of mass because it has a larger surface area which matters in difficult situations. That said, the person you're replying to never even uses the word "head"

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#420

Post by krferriter »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

This is a really bad argument. None of this is a good reason for K-12 students to have their phone on them all day.
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