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The Burnout Machine

unionize.fyi

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Re: The Burnout Machine

#411

Post by leoh »

mojomark wrote: post #399
mojomark wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting take, but I have a slightly different take. My ding dong company pays everyone including myself, salaries that are way too high. They gave ne a 30% raise I didn't even ask for or expect. We get a contract to do X, which say should take a team of 5 folks. However, we can only staff the contract with 3 folks because our salaries are too high. Now, we're all working 80hr weeks and stressed to the…

Really weird that my comment was downvoted. No idea why. I guess HN just isn't for me after 10 years. Peace out.

I think it’s an interesting comment. Hard to not take that kind of thing personally though.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#412

Post by __loam »

krainboltgreene wrote: post #401
echelon wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more likely they'll offshore the union job. Unions lead to an ossified workforce where nobody does more than what is essential. New employees are jealous of tenured employees with more benefits. Once people get tenure, they'll take advantage of their status. This leads to lower productivity, not higher productivity. Without a union, you have people fighting to show their seniority and leadership at every level.…

It’s so wild to hear capitalist talking points come from a worker.

Bro please don't unionize they're going to outsource our jobs bro please

Re: The Burnout Machine

#413

Post by hardlyfun »

I would still rather be doing tech right now than anything else. Job market is not as good as it used to be, but it is still better than other work.

Honestly, I kind of only just scanned the article because it was clearly written by GPT.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#414

Post by ornornor »

nosefurhairdo wrote: post #243
ornornor wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your employer doesn’t need you to buy food or pay for a roof over their head. You need your employer to stay fed and housed. There is a lot more downside for you than your employer, thus a massive power asymmetry. The only way to restore the balance is solidarity between workers and it’s usually a union (or a guild)

I don't need my employer for that either, because they're competing for my labor in a market with many other employers. It would be extremely costly to replace me because of the critical role I have on a highly profitable product. If anything, I'm the one with leverage, which I use every year to request more pay, fancier titles, and larger responsibilities. Realistically, if I were laid off today I'd likely land a be…

Good for you. You’d still have all that and even more leverage with a union. And so would all your fellow SEs instead of only you.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#415

Post by ornornor »

WJW wrote: post #232
ornornor wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your employer doesn’t need you to buy food or pay for a roof over their head. You need your employer to stay fed and housed. There is a lot more downside for you than your employer, thus a massive power asymmetry. The only way to restore the balance is solidarity between workers and it’s usually a union (or a guild)

Get some financial discipline and arrange an emergency fund covering at least 6 months of expenses. It's amazing how much less leverage your employer is able to exert if you can make good on a threat of leaving.

Or you could have leverage from a union and not have to seriously consider quitting every time you need something from your employer.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#416

Post by dmarlow »

Veserv wrote: post #265
echelon wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working nights and weekends got me a close to ten figure exit at a now publicly traded fintech. So yeah, I don't mind. Rather than retiring on that money, I'm back at it again, and I'm working even harder. I know what mediocrity and complacency is. I've worked surrounded by it, and I'll do anything to avoid it. I don't want that bullshit where coworkers strive to do the minimum and everybody plays hot potato to see w…

What? You claim to have gotten a nearly 10 figure exit, yet you claim you made 450 k$ TC in your last job [1]. Even a maximally conservative estimate of 100,000,001 $ for a “nearly 10 figure exit” (being literally 1 dollar over 9 figures) would get you over 4 M$ annually in risk free treasuries. Why would you work for 450 k$? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43429259

Maybe he's counting decimal places too?

Re: The Burnout Machine

#417

Post by laborworker »

snozolli wrote: post #225
jacobgkau wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My initial reaction to this whole thing was the same as yours (not that I have any love lost for academics). Software engineers do basically no physical labor and usually get paid better than many people who physically work way harder. On the whole, software engineers are not "the victim," as you said. However, your examples made me think. > In other places, you can have a typical 40h/week job at a salary way better…

Software engineers do basically no physical labor I developed debilitating tendinitis in both wrists right about the time I graduated college. A decade later, I developed a bulged disc in my neck that ended my career. There are very real risks to your body from sitting at a computer, deep in thought all day. There's a whole other swath of health issues, too, beside injury risks.

>> Software engineers do basically no physical labor

I know this is not like lifing boxes or bricks, but my main labor is a 2+hr commute each way to work -- why?

1. Because so many decent paying tech jobs are close to expensive cities

2. Because the jobs pay well, but not enough to live super close to the offices

3. Even if i lived closed to the office, the jobs are so volatile and changing you'd switch from south bay to SF to Oakland back to Fremont so you cant pick a single spot to live

4. You do this stupid 2hr commute only to go into a phonebooth "office" and sit alone on zoom calls with people in Asia who arent even in the same office

Re: The Burnout Machine

#418

Post by rlupi »

roncesvalles wrote: post #279
stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

In my experience as a software engineer rounding out 6 years now, what I have observed in myself and others is that the work pressure that leads to burnout in SWEs is largely self-imposed. I have some conjectures as to why that may be: 1. High variability of pay, not only between companies but within companies. As a SWE your total compensation can be expected to double every two promotions, and promotions can be pret…

> In my experience as a software engineer rounding out 6 years now, what I have observed in myself and others is that the work pressure that leads to burnout in SWEs is largely self-imposed.

This is how control works in our society. It's true for all people.

The philosopher Byung-Chul Han explains it well in "The Burnout Society".

Re: The Burnout Machine

#419

Post by SoftTalker »

archsurface wrote: post #340
stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

Not all dev jobs are like that. There is only one country called the USA.

And even in the USA they are not. I never work more than 40 hours, have ample time off, and am never under very much stress at work. If things don't get done today, well they will be there tomorrow. Now granted, I don't make the money that I used to make at a 60+ hour a week startup with weekends and all-nighters not uncommon. But it's worth it, and it's still enough to live on comfortably.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#420

Post by mulmen »

sensanaty wrote: post #398
mulmen wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the US and my employer provides excellent healthcare. I broke my collarbone last spring and had surgery to repair it followed by months of physical therapy. Zero dollars out of pocket.

That's the problem though, you're dependent on your company in order to not go bankrupt after your injury. If you get fired, you're screwed, if I get fired here in EU, it's not that big of a deal (plus it's harder to fire me in the first place)

Yep, exactly. Golden handcuffs.
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