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Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

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Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#411

Post by taneq »

brabel wrote: post #379
Dalewyn wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For how much we all bitch about beancounters, I'm kind of surprised that beancounters haven't managed to convince management to buy bottom-of-the-barrel Celeron laptops for software developers. Make those fucking assholes use the hardware of the people instead of some monstrosity with a 256 cores CPU and 48 TB of RAM and 24 exabytes of enterprise SSD and an RTX Cinco Grande connected via optical fiber to the Amazonfl…

I have access to a couple of Macbook Pros and a Linux machine with very good processors, but I do my hobby development all in an old Macbook Air. That allows me to see when my code runs slowly much more clearly. On an M1, everything just runs so fast you don't notice when you have a serious performance issue which is painfully obvious on the Macbook Air! I recommend doing that, though it does require patience waiting…

I've always (well, since Pentium days at least) said you don't actually want your devs using top-end machines, at least for testing and debugging. You want them using the minimum target hardware. That way they'll actually care when the product slow on low end hardware, which will make it usable there and snappy on high end hardware. I've certainly caught a few accidentally-exponential style UI issues which were unnoticeable on a new workstation but very obvious on a slower machine.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#412

Post by taneq »

FpUser wrote: post #402
Dalewyn wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For how much we all bitch about beancounters, I'm kind of surprised that beancounters haven't managed to convince management to buy bottom-of-the-barrel Celeron laptops for software developers. Make those fucking assholes use the hardware of the people instead of some monstrosity with a 256 cores CPU and 48 TB of RAM and 24 exabytes of enterprise SSD and an RTX Cinco Grande connected via optical fiber to the Amazonfl…

I use "monster" desktops for my development. I appreciate luxury of language servers, proper syntax highlighting, smart complete etc. etc. Output results however are absolutely tiny (for what they do) single executable enterprise backends, firmware for microcontrollers etc. etc. Also produce desktop same style software. Runs fine on ancient computers. So there is a use for fat development stations. Increases my produ…

"If I had more time I'd write you a shorter program." :)

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#413

Post by FpUser »

bdangubic wrote: post #409
FpUser wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Canada, own house and pay property taxes. Cut the BS. You know what I mean under own. Yes ownership is limited but even limited it is much better than throwing away extra dosh to some middleman I do not give a flying fuck about.

this is “common wisdom” that owning is better, the “math” on that seldom checks out https://www.kiplinger.com/real-estate/buying-a-home/renting-...

It checks out big time for me.

>"In 21 U.S. metros, the monthly cost of owning is at least 50% more expensive"

I am not in the US. 21 metros do not constitute country. When I bought house in major metro (Toronto) it was $200,000. So please do not feed me this pathetic propaganda.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#414

Post by kopirgan »

luckylion wrote: post #390
kopirgan wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I meant by different sense. Yes. But I suspect it applies to citizen facing things. It doesn't likely hold up research or pressures them into returning POC Viking images. I could be wrong of course.

I'm not sure it's easier to make your products block communication about Taiwan or Tiananmen Square. If you have to do political policing one way or the other, you'll have to invest resources to achieve it. On the other hand, maybe it's beneficial for r&d because it pressures you to do hard things that your product benefits from, e.g. controllability in ML-products.

Yeah that makes sense.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#415

Post by murtio »

I'm starting to believe that these articles are commissioned. I asked their public model questions related to branding and marketing, instructing it to come up with a brand identity based off the apps functionalities. It kept talking to itself for more than 5 minutes in Chinese! Then finished up with a very bad answer!

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#416

Post by aguaviva »

Dalewyn wrote: post #300
selimthegrim wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Landslide? Electorally?

Trump won both the electoral and popular votes and won all the swing states. The Republicans took both Houses of Congress and held all governorships up for election. Yes, he won by a landslide and the biggest factor was the bad economy.

Trump won both the electoral and popular votes and won all the swing states.

That's not what "landslide victory" means.

In fact Trump's electoral total was scarcely different from Biden's in 2016, and his popular vote margin was far narrower. Historically speaking, both of these are much closer to dead heats than they are to what are generally considered to be landslide victories (like Clinton's wins in 92-96, and Reagan's in 84-88).

You're only saying it's a "landslide" because Trump keeps saying that in his speeches.

But as usual he's either simply lying, or has no idea what he's talking about.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#417

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

modeless wrote: post #145
lomkju wrote: post #6

I feel the GPU restrictions created an environment for Chinese Devs to be more innovative and do more with less. Kudos to the deepseek team!

Software expands to fill the available resources. If you want more efficient software, build it on less powerful hardware. AI training runs are no exception!

That's not what "software engineers" in Silicon Valley or Redmond typically do.

They write software that usurps other people's computing resources, e.g., CPU, storage and an internet connection that they do not pay for.

It's one reason I use NetBSD, custom barebones Linux. I write and compile software on single core old computers and cheap eMMC laptops.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#418

Post by arisAlexis »

viraptor wrote: post #25
arisAlexis wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course if you arrive last and copy all the existing architecture you can train it cheaper

No, you can only train at the same cost then. (Actually higher, because you don't have the existing hardware/power agreements) The whole point of the last model was that they made significant changes beyond just copying.

No because you can train once and avoid all the errors that are costly and make you train and retrain.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#419

Post by antifa »

petesergeant wrote: post #351
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan, Germany, Italy, and numerous other countries are all much worse off. Assuming things don't change, China in 2050 will be in approximately the same position as Japan today . Germany and Italy, to take but two examples of large Western economies, haven't had native above-replacement TFR since ~1970. Even in the US, TFR is well below replacement right now, and in fact is basically comparable to China's TFR from 2…

Yes but people want to immigrate to Italy and Germany, and emigrate from China

I've never heard of someone wanting to go to Italy for non-vacation reasons...

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#420

Post by antifa »

cheinic830405 wrote: post #295
bugglebeetle wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure thing, Dr. Pangloss. > Average age of first-time homebuyers is 38, an all-time high. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/11/05/the-average-age-of-first... > U.S. homelessness rose 18 percent in 2024, continuing multi-year upward trend > https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-homelessness-rose-18... > analysis of government data estimates that people in the United States owe at least $220 billion in medical debt. http…

> Average age of first-time homebuyers is 38, an all-time high. And why is this a problem? What is wrong with renting for life, exactly? I’m seeing more and more people own rental properties, but do not own their primary residence by choice.

> What is wrong with renting for life, exactly?

Nobody wants to be your serf until they're 38, bozo.

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